Question about a fine I got on the trains a while ago

NumeroDeux

I got caught at Waterloo East about 6 months ago without a ticket, I'd paid for my ticket, I just couldn't find it. I did actually have the receipt part of the ticket, but that didn't seem to be enough for the inspectors. So I paid them £10 (which was all I had on me, easily enough to cover my ticket) and gave them my details - this is where it gets complicated, I technically wasn't living anywhere at the time, I just had a sofa at a friend's house I slept on (I didn't tell them this because if they started sending letters there his mother would probably have had a fit). So in response to my vagueness they accused me of lying and said they could check my address, I said fine, if they wanted to check my address they could but it would just come back as the same as the one on my ID, which I'd showed them, somewhere I hadn't lived in about a year at that point. This started a bit of an argument. They then started to talk about calling the transport police so I put on my best "I'm really sorry I didn't mean to" act which had no effect, but they were swamped with people and obviously couldn't be bothered to deal with me. In the end they just wrote the ticket to my old address and said it was in my best interests to just pay the rest at a station whenever I could, so I went with that.

Anyway, being the most forgetful, laziest person in the world, I didn't. I found the penalty fare notice the other day, I've missed the due date by some time. If I'd remembered I would've paid it, it's not like I'm gonna be fussy over £10, I've given more than that to homeless people (not that I'm rich ha).

Someone told me I could in fact have been tried and convicted without even knowing, which seems crazy. Even if they thought I was trying to avoid paying I at least had enough on me to cover the fare and was willing to part with my money. I've not had a CRB check since then so it's not like I'd know. If they'd written to me the letter would've gone to my old address, so I'd have no way of knowing. He also said that since it was South Eastern and not TFL that caught me I'm probably fine since they don't usually prosecute unless they can prove you were trying to commit an act of fraud.

So what do I do now? Is there any way I can check what SE Trains did? Can I ring them and ask or something? And most importantly of all, will it show up on a CRB - I've heard different opinions on this, one saying that as it's a private company making a private prosecution, it probably won't, unless they really hate you, and another that it will.

Livingthedream

NumeroDeux wrote: »

So what do I do now? Is there any way I can check what SE Trains did? Can I ring them and ask or something? And most importantly of all, will it show up on a CRB - I've heard different opinions on this, one saying that as it's a private company making a private prosecution, it probably won't, unless they really hate you, and another that it will.

Seen that it's a PFN, which is civil and not criminal, there is a slight chance that you haven't been prosecuted, however, SE trains can cancel the PFN and prosecute under byelaw 18.1 which is criminal offence(failure to show a valid ticket offence).

If you did get prosecute in your absence, then that offence will show up on a standard CRB check.

As to who to contact, regarding whether you've been prosecuted or not, I'm not to sure?

Not the kind of question I would like to ask a train company, ie have you prosecuted me yet? and if you haven't are you planning to?

You could post your question here on the CaG forum for more advise.

NumeroDeux

Livingthedream wrote: »

Seen that it's a PFN, which is civil and not criminal, there is a slight chance that you haven't been prosecuted, however, SE trains can cancel the PFN and prosecute under byelaw 18.1 which is criminal offence(failure to show a valid ticket offence).

If you did get prosecute in your absence, then that offence will show up on a standard CRB check.

As to who to contact, regarding whether you've been prosecuted or not, I'm not to sure?

Not the kind of question I would like to ask a train company, ie have you prosecuted me yet? and if you haven't are you planning to?

You could post your question here on the CaG forum for more advise.

Already did. Thanks for the advice. I agree about phoning the rail company, perhaps I could phone from a withheld number and ask about 'a friend' (on whose behalf I've been asked to speak, obviously).

Stigy

NumeroDeux wrote: »

Already did. Thanks for the advice. I agree about phoning the rail company, perhaps I could phone from a withheld number and ask about 'a friend' (on whose behalf I've been asked to speak, obviously).

I'm surprised it was only for £10, given that most Train Operators' PFNs are £20 or twice the standard single fare for the journey made, whichever is the greatest. Does anybody you know live at your old address? If so, chances are they'll have received any correspondence from SET. If the person at that address sent any correspondence back saying you're not known there anymore, it might be between addresses so to speak. The people to call are probably IRCAS (or whomever is listed on the reverse of the PFN you have). They'll soon tell you if any further action has been taken. they usually add a few admin charges to them first, before sending them back to SET, who will prosecute, probably under Byelaw 18.2 on this occassion depending on the circumstances etc of the case.

I dout it would have been prosecuted as of yet, given the 6-month time frame here, and also, without a solid address, SET will have difficulty in issuing a sumonse anyway.

NumeroDeux

Stigy wrote: »

I'm surprised it was only for £10, given that most Train Operators' PFNs are £20 or twice the standard single fare for the journey made, whichever is the greatest. Does anybody you know live at your old address? If so, chances are they'll have received any correspondence from SET. If the person at that address sent any correspondence back saying you're not known there anymore, it might be between addresses so to speak. The people to call are probably IRCAS (or whomever is listed on the reverse of the PFN you have). They'll soon tell you if any further action has been taken. they usually add a few admin charges to them first, before sending them back to SET, who will prosecute, probably under Byelaw 18.2 on this occassion depending on the circumstances etc of the case.

I dout it would have been prosecuted as of yet, given the 6-month time frame here, and also, without a solid address, SET will have difficulty in issuing a sumonse anyway.

It was for £20, I had £10 on me so I paid that to them there and then, and thus I still owed them £10 (which was what I was supposed to pay at a station later).

Stigy

NumeroDeux wrote: »

It was for £20, I had £10 on me so I paid that to them there and then, and thus I still owed them £10 (which was what I was supposed to pay at a station later).

Ok, got wrong end of stick, lol. With that in mind, if they did chose to prosecute, they'd not be owed any money from the initial fare, as you paid more than the fare in the form of a PFN. Although not impossible, this could make a successful prosecution more difficult, unless the Magistrate really like the railway, lol. I would imagine some of that £10 went towards the ticket price, and some towards the penalty fare.