Tenant problem with a twist!!

Cissi

Babycreature wrote: »

They demanded £825 to be repaid to them in cash there and then. This is moneys I am holding as security and equal to one months rent. I agreed to refund moneys when some of the above issues were resolved.

This doesn't sound to me like the deposit is held in a registered scheme... OP, assuming that you're in E&W I think you'd better register the deposit right away, before your tenants get the idea to read up on their rights somewhere like on this forum... Never mind any damage to the flat, you risk being sued for 3 x the deposit, ouch!

As for the timing issue I think your best bet is to negotiate with the tenants to make sure to get them out on time. They seem to be holding most of the cards here, so you may need to concede more than the 5 days rent refund that you've already offered...

<sebb>

darkpool wrote: »

cars have oil in them, sometimes this oil drips from cars.

Yes, and shoes have dirt on them, sometimes it gets on the carpets and causes a stain. Doesn't mean the tenants should pay to get the carpets cleaned.

Babycreature

Thanks everyone for all the opinions. I am being made to feel like I'm the bad guy here.

Firstly, I did not take a deposit. Just two months rent in advance. Second, the current tenants vacated the property and agreed that I could re-let on the proviso that I make a pro-rata refund to them. All in writing, text and emails. The estate agents therefore showed new tenants around with full permission and agreement of current tenants while they were still living there. Gas certificates in place. Inventory exists with all items graded by estate agent. Items damaged was due to negligence not wear and tear. Never any history of ill feeling with current tenant. I merely refused to hand over the months rent in advance when they moved out. The agreement was to give this money back plus pro rata days on the day the new tenants moved in. I just can't see the point of holding on to a property that they no longer need or use. My original point was asking for advise of wether I could re-enter the property, having given reasonable notice to the current tenants to effect repairs. If permission is withheld, on what reasonable grounds. The agreement also states that the tenant must not leave the property empty for more than two weeks without permission. That's all.

Babycreature

Thanks for all the question JOWO. They have given me two sets of keys but they still have another two sets still to be returned. No, the locks are still the same. They did not give me notice in writing, they told me they were going a month before they did. They haven't moved back, they did a house exchange with some friends that are moving to the states so they have moved there. No deposit was taken and it says so on the rental agreement. "Landlord agrees not to take a deposit". Yes there is a valid gas safety certificate? If I have agreed to return their advance months rent and the pro-rata days and I have acted in reliance of their agreement to re-let surely I have some re-course.

Babycreature

How can I get "nicked" artfuldodger? they agreed to everything that has happened with emails and text messages to prove it. I am not harrassing them. They merely wanted to mitigate their losses by having a new tenant in the property as soon as possible so that they could benefit from a pro-rata refund. They changed their mind on everything that was agreed when I asked for some of the damage to be put right before I could refund them their month in advance rent back.

stringsmk2

just give them the money back and change the locks and move on.

theartfullodger

Lodger not Dodger.

You will hopefully get nicked if you let again before end of tenancy, current Merkin tenants try to get back in find someone else there & involve a smart solicitor or Shelter who reminds Police that illegal eviction is a criminal offence.

That you've nothing in writing agreeing to ending tenancy would be laughable in other circumstances.

2 months rent in advance is really 1 month's rent in advance & 1 months deposit .. read the act? Housing act 2004 section 213.?? And see how a deposit is (from memory ) any money held as security.

Hope tenants are reading this thread.

The country needs professional, trained & competent landlords not amateurs.

Imp

Babycreature wrote: »

They demanded £825 to be repaid to them in cash there and then. This is moneys I am holding as security and equal to one months rent. I agreed to refund moneys when some of the above issues were resolved.

From the above statement, you consider the £825 to be a deposit, even if you don't call it a deposit. You are still using it as security.

If it isn't a deposit, and is rent up front, then it should be returned to the tenants without reservation, now.

They probably feel the same, and this is why they have got all mardy with you when you refuse to return to them the money you owe them.

rabbitmumu

Obviously you/ any landlord want to get maximum rent. If no official agreement is signed between you and the old tenant, don't trust them 100%.

Even if the previous tenant promised you this and that, you should technically say have a quick look around before their contract ended, estimate the time required to repair/ do up the place (say 1-2 weeks) allow for some margin/ anything unexpected, and shouldn't really start to accept new tenants until something like mid-Feb.

If nothing legal is signed, then i don't think you can enter the property (whether for repair or for the next tenant) before 27th Jan.

As per Prince of Pounds

"and this all assumes it was in showroom condition in the beginning"

I have been renting for over 15 years and there's this thing called "normal wear and tear", "genuine damage" and "landlord's problems".

Anything else - normal wear and tear.
Mirror - can take it out from deposit
dirty windows - showroom condition at the beginning??? - if so, just charge for 1/2 hours clean
Leak - you must be joking thinking the tenant is responsible! Unless you are saying they dug a hole in the pipe ?

N79

Babycreature wrote: »

Firstly, I did not take a deposit. Just two months rent in advance.

Ahh - the old its advance rent not a deposit lark. Sorry to rain on your parade but the High Court has shot this crap down for the !!!!!!!! that it is. A deposit is a deposit, whatever you call it.

Either repay the deposit now or pay it into a protection scheme. Anything else is leaving you wide open to a 3x claim.

At the minute, you are the bad guy because at best you are acting unlawfully and, as artfulodger has pointed out, you are in grave danger of acting illegally. You need to recognize this fact and start to deal with your problems professionally. Your first step must be to throw away the shovel.

Then you need to sort out the deposit (ie protect it).
They you need to either get a formal surrender of the old tenancy in writing (you may need to bribe the Ts) or you need to wait until the tenancy actually ends. Note that if the old Ts stay in residence after the end date of the tenancy then the tenancy will not end until you successfully evict them, which you can not do with an unprotected deposit.

In the meantime contact the Ts by writing. Do not enter the property again without permission.

Good luck but I'm afraid you have dug a fairly large hole so its going to be a steep learning curve.