Dentists - how can you spot a con?

brook2jack

The difference between nhs and private is time.

I think you have been seen in a clinic or access centre which is paid entirely by the nhs so doesn't have to cover costs. £120 an hour for one room in a typical nhs surgery.

To make ends meet a nhs dentist will see 40 to 60 people a day. Private 20 to 25 working same hours. The materials and lab work will be better which is why research shows private dentists earn only 5 per cent more than nhs dentists. They just dont have to flog themselves to death doing cheapest possible dentistry and not be able to use best equipment techniques and materials.

justjohn

brook2jack wrote: »

Justjohn I presume you must have been seen in a community clinic or dental access centre. These are set up for people who cannot be treated in general practice because they have a physical or learning difficulty or phobia which makes it impossible to be treated in practice. They are funded by the health service because a general practice could not give you the time you need for treatment without going bust. I also assume you are in scotland or ni as 350 is not an english nhs charge or welsh. In england your total charge for all that time and treatment would be 46 ish! Economic suicide for a treating dentist.

It is just a standard practice. Initially I went there as an 'emergency'. I was not registered with a dentist (due to my phobia) and at the time of my chronic toothache they didn't know of my fear, and just sent to me to my nearest clinic and there I stayed!

My girlfriend is registered at an English NHS dentist and she got free treatment at her dentist as she was pregnant, but a few months ago her 'free period' ended and she had one filling and it cost her £35. I am sure she will be amazed to know that for and extra £11 she could have had 5 teeth taken out and 5 more fillings!

Anyhow I think we are getting away from my original point that just because you pay more does not guarantee you a better service.

I get a better service from my local garage than I do from the main dealer and at a lesser price - it's the same difference - if you get my drift.!

justjohn

welshdent wrote: »

You may say you do not wish to get in to an arguement but you should be prepared to be challenged when you make false and mis informed statements.

The system in Scotland is COMPLETELY differerent to the system in england and wales. In scotland they are still funded for the work they do so they would have been paid to carry out a root filling. Here and england they are not.

Perfectly happy to be challenged. My opinion of 'you don't necessarily get what you pay for' is not ill informed. It is based on my experience. That experience being in Scotland. You are telling me I am wrong. That was an assumption on your part that I was in England/Wales.

welshdent

justjohn wrote: »

I refuse to believe a good private dentist can do an extraction or a standard filling any better than a good NHS dentist. However i am also fully aware that many good dentists on the nhs will move to private paractices due to the money.

I would challenge you on both those statements. I went for a private job myself not so long ago and it would have earned me less money but it would have meant that I could have seen far less patients a day and had far more time to spend with my patients. The price you pay bears little resemblance to what the dentist takes home. You have to be careful what you read in biased newspaper articles. They are designed to cause anger in the public to detract goodwill to the professional thus eliminating public sympathy when rubbish conracts are forced on to us. Most dentists do not go private for more money I assure you. Many would make more in the health service particularly principal dentists that posess the main contract for the practice. What you get is less hassle and more time in private practice. I would gladly go private in a second but its not as easy as the press would have you believe. It isnt some switch you throw. Either a job needs to come up somewhere or as an associate dentist, the practice owner needs to convert. Certainly in Wales its not that common. I wouldnt believe all you read in the papers.

also I am not saying an "NHS" dentist would do a bad job deliberately. I am one myself. However all things being equal, with an equally ethical dentist. If you have 10 minutes and a lump of bargain basement filling material or 40 minutes and the expensive top end filling material who do you think will get the best result? There is a key word in what I said ... ethical. However it is a simple fact that being funded by the NHS for work WILL be like tieing one hand behind your back.

welshdent

justjohn wrote: »

Anyhow I think we are getting away from my original point that just because you pay more does not guarantee you a better service.

I dont believe I have said that it does .... merely pointing out that your experience is not the only one to base everyone else by ... and the problems and defficiencies within the NHS system. I WOULD be able to give you a better service privately than I can on the health service and I genuinely try and do my best without exception for all my patients. I am not one of the "this isnt available on the NHS" when it absolutely is brigade.

and believe me the scottish system is not without fault. Its the same system we had here until a few years ago. The same system that we were unhappy with for many years due to the treadmill effect of having to see more and more patients to make the sums equate. It just happens to be the lesser of the 2 evils but that doesnt make it good. The system is still rubbish.

jellymid

how can you spot a con?

Obviously a lot of debate sparked here. I have a very crude technique for assessing this, I look in the car park. This stemmed from an incident at a new dentists some years ago. He was young, driving an Audi TT and wanted to replace all of my aging but trouble free fillings. I considered that he was motivated purely by money, and walked away. When changing dentists subsequently, I have spent a bit of time observing the carparks, especially first thing in the morning, combined with some web research - photographs of staff are often available. Of course this comes after receiving recommendations from others, but has worked for me since then.

welshdent

That wont work when having NHS work. For the simple fact the dentist if financially penalised when they do more than 2 fillings. The optimal is to only do one item of treatment for the appropriate band. i.e. 1 filling for a band 2 ... in fact no the optimal for band 2 is one simple extraction because there is less cost involved compared to placing a filling. So being told you need a lot of work done is not an indication of someone being on the make.

so it is indeed a very crude method of assessment. I know teachers driving Audi TTs so be careful with a view such as that it could be rather prejudicial. You are in no position to judge an individuals finances based on what car they drive nor can you assess their mentality.

Incidentally, I have lost track of the numbers of times I have heard "trouble free fillings" used. Trouble free to you does not mean that they do not need replacing.

brook2jack

justjohn wrote: »

My girlfriend is registered at an English NHS dentist and she got free treatment at her dentist as she was pregnant, but a few months ago her 'free period' ended and she had one filling and it cost her £35. I am sure she will be amazed to know that for and extra £11 she could have had 5 teeth taken out and 5 more fillings!

A
I get a better service from my local garage than I do from the main dealer and at a lesser price - it's the same difference - if you get my drift.!

You have got excellent service 6 to 7 hours at least for £350. The government contributes 20% in Scotland. so £420 in total. It cost the surgery £840 to run the room for this time (average £120 an hour), so in order to provide this level of service the practice loses £420.

To put this into even starker relief in England and Wales your 7 hours of treatment would have cost you £39 to £46, it would have earned the practice including government contribution £66. Your treatment would have contributed £9.20 to the hourly cost of running the room. In other words they would be running at £110 an hour loss on your treatment.

I think in light of this you must be being seen in a dental access centre where dentists are salaried ... it will look like a "normal" practice but the costs are directly paid by the government. Because normal surgeries only get money for treatment nothing else and this covers the whole cost of running a practice and as you can see the figures don't support this.

The corollary of this is in a "normal" dental practice each person has £36 average spent on them per course of treatment. In a salaried service (access centre etc) it costs around £420 per course of treatment.

PS either your girlfriend is mistaken and paid £45.60 which is the standard charge for one or twenty fillings or she was charged a cheaper private fee for her filling. There are only three charge bands in England £16.50, £45.60 or £198.

brook2jack

jellymid wrote: »

how can you spot a con?

Obviously a lot of debate sparked here. I have a very crude technique for assessing this, I look in the car park. This stemmed from an incident at a new dentists some years ago. He was young, driving an Audi TT and wanted to replace all of my aging but trouble free fillings. I considered that he was motivated purely by money, and walked away. When changing dentists subsequently, I have spent a bit of time observing the carparks, especially first thing in the morning, combined with some web research - photographs of staff are often available. Of course this comes after receiving recommendations from others, but has worked for me since then.

I am a private (mostly) dentist. I drive a ten year old Skoda, my colleague a three year old basic model vectra .
My nurses husband works in the car industry so she drives a brand new top of the range car. The owner of the practice keeps fit so he cycles in.

The newly qualified dentist who we train walks in because after all their student debt they cannot afford to run a car.

And this would tell you?

welshdent

brook2jack wrote: »

I am a private (mostly) dentist. I drive a ten year old Skoda, my colleague a three year old basic model vectra .
My nurses husband works in the car industry so she drives a brand new top of the range car. The owner of the practice keeps fit so he cycles in.

The newly qualified dentist who we train walks in because after all their student debt they cannot afford to run a car.

And this would tell you?

Brook you must be telling porkies cos all dentists are money grabbing so and sos that drive ferraris. I know its true cos someone told me.

I drive a nice mini cooper diesel because the 50 miles driving I do make it cheap to run in comparison to other cars! Incidentally the same model car that my neighbour has working as a nurse.