What should I know about claiming ESA for mental health reasons?

LadyMorticia

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

I'm currently getting ESA (Support Group) for mental health problems and can offer some advice.

Firstly though I would agree with much of what has been said except perhaps the idea that someone with very severe depression would be unable to comprise the sort of post that began this thread. Mental health is so variant person to person and diagnosis fairly meaningless in scientific terms. In fact I can't even get a diagnosis despite a near 2 year battle with medical professionals. But depression will render someone likely incapable of performing regular tasks to typical levels of efficiency, at very least.

The initial ESA form doesn't ask too much about medical problems - expect the main form (ESA50) to come later which is to properly assess the effects of health problems on abilities to perform tasks.

I strongly advise that (unlike me) you seek help in filling this in from the CAB or Welfare rights. It is almost always the case that you'll get a medical after completing that ESA50 (which took me several weeks to fill in due to mental health). The medical carried out by an ATOS health care professional along with your completed ESA50 will enable that health care professional to make a recommendation of your limitations in relation to work (based on the qualifying criteria for the benefit) to the DWP decision maker. This ends what is termed the 13 week assessment phase (mine actually took well over a year!) and until this phase actually ends you'll almost certainly need to supply sick notes.

I advise to seriously consider placing into the arena at your medical assessment any supporting medical evidence you can in relation to the criteria that supports your case. I presented the health care professional with a risk assessment carried out by a CPN – she took a copy.

They do not advertise the fact that you can present supporting medical evidence – in fact ATOS may deter you from doing so with their communications. The decision maker at the DWP will get a computer generated medical report which is filled in by the health care professional on a PC application during your medical. (I've little doubt by this stage you'll have read about the criteria for assessing your health problems that affect your abilities to do things - i.e. how you're assessed for this benefit).

You can request a copy of this medical report from the DWP. The DWP decision maker (not likely medically qualified) will almost certainly follow the judgements of the health care professional (who you should assume will be aiming to give you as little as possible in relation to criteria qualifying scoring for the benefit).

If you score enough points overall to qualify yourself as having 'limited capability for work' you will be placed into the Work Related Activity Group and get more money (and have to turn up to a few appointments with an adviser at the jobcentre to look at how a return to work may be engineered bearing in mind your health problems) - if you fail you will be expected to apply for JSA (or appeal of course like many!).

However, if you are found to have met the criteria for the Support Group (limited capability for Work related activity) then you remain on the benefit and get more money, regardless of your scoring. Very few people are found to meet the criteria for the Support Group – I was surprised that despite meeting the criteria in my view, I only qualified because the health care professional determined I met special criteria in relation to being a risk to people if not found to have limited capability.

I strongly advise you prepare well for the medical especially if trying to convey your mental health problems. The health care professionals are trained to look for specific behaviours/appearances typically suggestive of certain conditions. For example eye contact, rapport, demeanour, facial expressions, speech, nerves – these may be indicative of how depressed someone may be. The software they use prompts them to look for these sorts of things as they go through the assessment – but don’t assume it begins when they sit at the PC; they’ll be examining you as soon as they call you from the waiting room (especially if it gives them a chance to assess something like walking problems).

I hope the process runs smoothly for you. Read up on people’s experiences, study the qualifying criteria, when the ESA50 comes get someone to help you complete it, take supporting evidence and good preparation to the ATOS medical. If something goes wrong, remember there’s a good chance you’ll be able to appeal with the help of CAB or similar.

I hope I don't sound rude, but I've broken it down into paragraphs to help everyone.:o

morledge142

ejf

i recently attended an etos medical and can support what the other post said. it is like the worst exam you will ever do.

regardless of having sick notes from your doc, the person in this interview will mark you as soon as you enter building.

ui didn't get any points for mental capacity despite the fact i burst into tears on arrival and then during interview when discussing this and it all got too much. she did mention it briefly on report but did not mention.

even tbough she questioned why i did not go out anymore??????????

i got points for not beiong able to walk but that waas it...........

so be careful and be well prepared. like they said even down to how you dress. i explained to them this was not normal for me but they don;t care they just judge someone as disabled or not. or able to work in whatever capacity or not - they even asked how long i sit at a computer? so you are fit to do that then??

they try and catch you out how they can. she asked me what programees i watched on tv to test how long i sit down. so every question has an angle they are never making polite cobnversation....

good luck.

rinabean

Hi, I just want to say don't worry too much. I had heard all the horror stories and I was absolutely terrified about my assessment, which was on Monday. (I am disabled due to depression and anxiety and have been for quite a while now.) But the woman doing it was friendly and I just answered her questions honestly and from what she said she feels I have a good chance of being accepted to get ESA (though she can't say and it's not up to her, of course). You might get an evil assessor but you might get a nice one too!

And obviously, don't even interact with people on the internet who think they can diagnose your health problems better than the professionals who have been treating you. That way lies madness. Well, more madness, anyway

littlerat

I've been in the support group for depression and anxiety for a year.. I think in February.

Everyone seems to have different experiences, but mine was pretty ok - my only issue was I had trouble with following what he was saying, a little due to his accent but largely just due to my mental state. If you have trouble with communicating try to take someone who understands your problems with you, I was mumbling or talking to myself so much the poor bloke needed my Dad to help explain. If on your own it would make it quite hard I imagine - of course not everyone with depression struggles with this, so only if relevant.

Likewise for the forms, if you have typical problems of a poor attention span or inability to understand things, help will just make it easier.

I've heard some people say explain your worst days - I just explained as best I could the good and the bad, just total honesty, I recieved a letter saying I was in the support group like a week later, so obviously my honesty didn't cause me problems. Of course if you're better at hiding these things than I was, it may change things - it's one time not being abke to hide any physical signs (unable to force eye contact, rocking, picking, whatever you may have) may actually serve you. I *personally* think exxaggerating may make them think you're lying.


Remember though, people mostly only report problems online - the people who have gone through without appeals and problems, with nice assessors and such rarely do. The good news is, depression means you'll probably be preparing for the worst possible outcome anyway!

To the people saying it's unlikely, even at my worst (which looking back was much worse than I thought at the time!) I used the computer quite well, seemingly. However people don't see if it takes you a long time to write a post, because you forget what you're doing every 5 words. My main post for help backlong around when I was being assessed took me about 2 hours to write, thankfully forums don't show these things

cit_k

rinabean wrote: »

Hi, I just want to say don't worry too much. I had heard all the horror stories and I was absolutely terrified about my assessment, which was on Monday. (I am disabled due to depression and anxiety and have been for quite a while now.) But the woman doing it was friendly and I just answered her questions honestly and from what she said she feels I have a good chance of being accepted to get ESA (though she can't say and it's not up to her, of course). You might get an evil assessor but you might get a nice one too!

And obviously, don't even interact with people on the internet who think they can diagnose your health problems better than the professionals who have been treating you. That way lies madness. Well, more madness, anyway

Hope all goes well and you pass ok, but dont get your hopes up, I have had a few assessments, and everyime the assessor was really nice....

Then everytime, the assessor turned out to be a total slime bag lying evil unprofessional <insert lots of swear words here>.

They are trained to be nice to people, but dont mistake someone being nice for someone being honest / professional / ethical.

cit_k

rinabean wrote: »

And obviously, don't even interact with people on the internet who think they can diagnose your health problems better than the professionals who have been treating you. That way lies madness. Well, more madness, anyway

You mean like ATOS assessors who think they can state your problems greater than yourself, AND the people who have been treating you...

Muttleythefrog

LadyMorticia wrote: »

I hope I don't sound rude, but I've broken it down into paragraphs to help everyone.:o

Thanks LadyMorticia, you've saved me a job. Being a newbie I seemed more concerned by length of post than formatting .

A couple of people are identifying important things. It is true that on the internet people are more likely to report the horror stories of the medical than good experiences, but there are some serious problems with the assessment. I would be very surprised if people found the health care professional to be anything other than 'friendly' - because as suggested their job is to essentially find that you can do things and the best way to do that is put you at ease. The questionning is clever - someone gave a classic example of asking you about what you watch on TV. Such questions will no doubt have some meaning other than finding out if you like Jeremy Kyle.

I actually secretly audio-recorded my medical and so I'm able to compare what was said with what ended up in my medical report which I also have. It highlights how I was even confronted quite aggressively at the beginning when I took papers from my bag. I explained that I would have to take brief notes (they get extremely weary of note taking!) in order to prevent me losing my train of thought during answering questions. The questionning also reveals that there were several attempts to place an emphasis on my good days - i.e. if one day a week on average I could be up at a reasonable hour of the morning then the conclusion would be that I have no problems getting up in the morning. The medical failed to explore some of the key areas of my mental health in relation to what I'd put on the ESA50 form - however I'm unable to determine if this was because of curtailment. Curtailment being whereby the health care professional may conclude the assessment if they find 'Support Group' criteria is met.

What is concerning is that in advance of my medical I requested, under the freedom of information act, the details of the person who would carry out my medical. I was given the name and profession, but was refused the medical qualifications. Shockingly the person who actually carried out my assessment was not even of the same sex as the health care professional details released to me. The health care professional who did my medical revealed that they hadn't even read my ESA50 form in advance of the medical - strictly against guidelines.

morledge142

i am in the process of appealing/complaining about my medical as it was completely out of context to what i had said.

the only correct part of it was i got points for not being able to walk or sit for very long but everythiing else i passed so was deemed fit for work and refused beneifts.

despite receiving base raate dla for car component soi i have conflicting medical reports from both dla and atos.

the esa medical as said asked what i watched on telly, how long i was on computer. i broke down as i was getting tired and fatigued so she said i would have to come back if i did not complete medical so i let her do examination after interview tick box questions but she did not metnion that in results.

you have to do silly little putting fingers together which basically means you can use hands etc so they are very clever. even though i told her i don;t read anymore becasue i cant hold a book if you can put 2 fingers together for a second you can obiouvsly use your hands.

i told her i didn;t go out anymore until she pushed and pushed me to admit because i could not face it anymore 0- my first reaction was to shrtug shoulders as no one like to admit they are a recluse who stays in bed in pain but when i said because i cant face it anymore she didn;t bother to mention that. ............

etc etc.

they seem to have a set list of tick box questions and cannot elaborate on your answers yes/no. as i undergoing some nurse training we were taught its not what a patient says it what they don;t say in interview/admission skills but she did not apply this.

ii also told her i couldn't go out on my own hubby was with me answerin gsome of questions but she did not put that down either.

will wait and see their response. she was a nice "NURSE" but i would not say competent for the job - nobody would be really as they are not really doing medical - it is just a series of tick obxesl

good luck

Muttleythefrog

mortledge142 it seems your experience is like for many. I think we're going to see a wave of appeals and challenges regarding the medical/benefit decision and this is sure to get worse as people migrate from Incapacity Benefit. I can only offer sympathy and say you are far from alone. (Ironically my battle is for DLA - I'm in the bizarre situation of being 'too dangerous to work' and yet requiring of no 'guidance or supervision' at any time).

I presume you're getting some legal support; if not I strongly advise approaching the CAB/Welfare Rights. I understand if you appeal then you'll continue getting the benefit at the basic rate until that is completed.

It seems that failing to report key features of assessment actually carried out is not uncommon, and I've also seen people reporting test results in the medical report that were completely baseless (i.e. test didn't occur).

What I would advise is that people request a copy of the medical report from the DWP like we did. Even though the correct conclusion occurred in my case (in my view) the assessment was completely flawed and full of errors. Furthermore, people are likely to be periodically tested and so I think it important people understand just how they did 'pass the medical' for their future purposes.

There certainly is a 'conveyor belt' tick box approach to it all and I'm sorry you are having to go through this. If it is any consolation, despite my mental health problems I am extremely self confident, but the stress of this medical actually caused my ability to conceal mental illness to shut down... resulting in me actually coming across as a muttering maniac... I didn't even recognise the person I became in the medical.. and I was extremely well prepared for it.

I started to panic the moment I stepped up from my chair and she said hello and asked where I was from (no doubt to test memory) and how I got there (no doubt to see if I'd been able to drive or use public transport/needed assistance). I was shaking like mad during the assessment, but presumably because the doctor was so short and sitting behind her monitor while I was sitting behind a high desk she actually concluded the complete opposite.

rinabean

Ok, now I'm freaking out again! I guess all I can do is wait and see if I'm accepted or not.