Claiming back fraudulent transactions on A&L account

mjhatcher

Hi all,

I really hope that you can help me out with some advice on this! My fiancee lost her A&L debit card (or was pickpocketed) last Saturday. Whoever got their hands on it proceeded to spend over £300 in stores and withdraw £250 from 2 cashpoints. :mad:

That last bit is the kicker - all the transactions were PIN-controlled. And according to A&L there is no record of any incorrect PINs being entered. She has never written down the PIN number; it is a different number to the one that she uses on all other accounts, and the only idea we have is that someone (either another customer or the cashier) must have watched her key in her PIN - she bought some stuff at the M&S Food in Paddington late night which was when we think the card was lost.

A&L are saying that because of the PIN they cannot reimburse the charges; our card protection company are refusing to pay because we didn't notify them until more than 24 hours after the loss - because we didn't find that the card was missing until 36 hours had passed.

It's a VISA debit card - does that give us the same level of protection as VISA credit? I'm pretty sure it doesn't, does it........

I'm going to try again to persuade A&L - if they don't back down, no matter how good the account is, I'm leaving for another provider.

Not a happy bunny....

James

Unfortunately this is all too common. A&L have to prove PIN negligence, which is very difficult. In theory the most you should have to fork out is £50.

The Financial Ombudsman Service route maybe one of your options, but join the queue, according to a report in the press earlier this year, the FOS was inundated with PIN based fraud cases.

Don't Pay Up for Card Fraud

Please take not of the above

Good luck.

jonesMUFCforever

First report the theft to the police and obtain a crime reference number.
Armed with this write a letter to A&L stating that funds have been taken out of your account fraudently and requesting a full refund (give details of all disputed transactions).
Your last paragraph should state that if they do not agree to a refund that you wish to take it further and that you want a letter of deadlock which you will need before the Ombudsman will look at your case.
If all fails sue them in the small claims court - I guarantee they will not defend it.

James

ejones999 wrote:

First report the theft to the police and obtain a crime reference number.
Armed with this write a letter to A&L stating that funds have been taken out of your account fraudently and requesting a full refund (give details of all disputed transactions).
Your last paragraph should state that if they do not agree to a refund that you wish to take it further and that you want a letter of deadlock which you will need before the Ombudsman will look at your case.
If all fails sue them in the small claims court - I guarantee they will not defend it.

Frist Class Advice! I would add one more thing, get the media involved, from past experience it speeds things up when they get a call from a journalist.

mjhatcher

Thanks for your kind advice! We've reported this and have a crime reference number. I spoke again with A&L raising that whole 'banking code' thing where I thought our maximum liability was £50. They seem to be hiding behind the fact that the transactions all had the correct PIN. Hopefully I'll have more joy with the letter - your comments have rebuilt my hopes a bit!

Tootsie_Roll

The £50 limit is for credit card transactions I think and doesn't apply to debit card transactions - not entirely sure so happy to be corrected. Interesting dilema as I think you have personal liability up to the point you notify them the card has been stolen.

MPH80

They seem to be hiding behind the fact that the transactions all had the correct PIN.

What they are relying on is this from their T&Cs (my bolding)

17.4 If someone uses Your Card before You tell Us it has been lost or stolen You may be liable for losses up to a maximum of £50.00, unless You have not kept Your PIN secret, or have acted fraudulently or without reasonable care, in which case You may be liable for the total loss.

http://www.alliance-leicester.co.uk/currentaccounts/ec03964.pdf

Now - that's a nasty little get out clause which doesn't feature in most T&Cs and I think it's firmly challengable. State that you took all viable steps to keep you pin secret and followed the advice about how to protect your pin (e.g. not writing it down etc).

State you don't know how it was obtained - perhaps through shoulder surfing (which is a viable defense) - or perhaps through use of a CCTV camera.

However, you must ensure that you state that you took all possible steps to ensure it remained secret.

No doubt they'll come back with some waffle - but keep pushing up the chain - and don't forget to try a journalist.

M.

oldfella

The £50 limit is for credit card transactions I think and doesn't apply to debit card transactions - not entirely sure so happy to be corrected. Interesting dilema as I think you have personal liability up to the point you notify them the card has been stolen.

---

debit cards are covered against fraudulent use in the same way as credit cards. The major difference is you cannot sue the bank if the supplier fails to deliver. Your maximum liability is £50 regardless of when you notify them.

Mike

mjhatcher

Well it's taken a while, but I just wanted to let everyone know the outcome of this story! And to thank all those who offered advice and support.

After speaking with British Transport Police (as it was Paddington station) we dealt with a very nice police officer who dealt with our case. I have to say I was heartened - I really thought we'd get a crime reference number and that would be it. In actual fact, she located CCTV from the incident and investigated thoroughly.

Whilst this was going on we repeatedly contacted A&L by phone and letter with little success, threatening to leave the bank, speak to the ombudsman, press etc. :mad:

Finally, on the day that I managed successfully to speak to someone in A&L's "fraud team", the police advised us they had sufficient evidence to make an arrest. Whether it was that or our sheer persistence, I don't know, but I have in my sweaty palms (well, sweaty current account) all the money back!

:j

jonesMUFCforever

That's great news!
My original post now however is not correct.
Banks have now 8 weeks to sort out complaints and after that time you are fee to contact the Banking Ombudsman.
(You no longer have to have a letter of deadlock)