If push comes to shove...?

COOLTRIKERCHICK

I have been thinking more about 'if push comes to shove' senario..

If there was a shortage and prices rocketed, then obviously you would have no surplus money to spend on other things... so this would lead to a total desaster in the retail/ business chain.

so umpteem million unemployed...

but This situation could go either one way or another, it could either make neighbours/communities turn against each other etc or acutally bring them closer together.. by people maximising hte growing spaces within their communities, and bartering weith their surplus products...

Never say it could never happen....

Didnt it happen somewhere in the last few years where food prices just totally rocketed in one country? I dont know what the reason was.

Also is it cuba? or one country where they grow all their own produce?

rhiwfield

CTC, there were widespread food riots in 2008 but it may be that you are remembering the 1989 Argentine food riots

If I recall right, Cuba underwent a major community food expansion about 1990 after its oil imports from Russia largely ceased.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not predicting some kind of Armageddon, just that its likely that food costs will take a bigger share of the household budget. And that will affect the less well off disproportionately in this country. Whether we will actually see UK food shortages in the coming years, well I hope not but I dont rule it out entirely.

So I reckon it doesnt do any harm to dig your veg patch, and sow some fruit trees and bushes, at the very least we'll have access to better tasting fruit and veg in the future.

RAS

rhiwfield wrote: »

Last two espaliers put in (March 2010) were Saturn and Winston, nurseryman boldly stating Winston is a spur bearer. Googling I'm getting both tip bearer and spur bearer. Have you got a definitive source on this, cos if it is a tip bearer it'll have to be replaced.

rhiwfield. I am not at home at the mo. I have Crawford and will double check later. Maybe Monday before I can post again.

When I teaching about varieties and grafting, I use Winston as an example. Cross Beauty of Bath (vv early) and Worcester Pearmain (early) and what do you get? Discovery which is ripens between the two. Cross Worcester Pearmain and Cox and what you get is a lovely Cox type apple which ripen in late spring! I am on the look out for later ripeners and it really is impressive (this grey-green bullet hard thing that look barely edible in late October) and the reason I did not graft it is because It is a tip bearer.

But I was reading Crawford last weekend (prepping for a session in March) and somewhere in the back of my skull I think I recall noting Winston and Winston spur type on the list. Will check this for you and post up ASAP. You may have to go back to your nursery man and ask where he got his trees and back-track from there to establish which variant it is.

Having said that I planted Ellison's Orange and did not even know that tip bearers are not suitable for espaliers until after the framework was established. It has taken me time but I have finally learned to prune to produce a decent crop and sometimes a good crop.

Kirri

wssla00 wrote: »

I'm in Scotland and my chard (the traditional white stuff, not the coloured stuff) has stood well.

I will try the white chard again next year, see if it does better for me, lost my chard quite early this winter, though it was bright lights and ruby chard, though previous winters it just about scraped through!

wssla00

The white stuff seems to be pretty indestructible. Even if it doesn't look as pretty

lostinrates

RAS wrote: »

rhiwfield. I am not at home at the mo. I have Crawford and will double check later. Maybe Monday before I can post again.

When I teaching about varieties and grafting, .

Gosh, you really are knowledgeable....can I pick your brains about varieties? we have space for about a dozen medium vigour or vigorous root stocked trees in the first instance. (I prefer the medium sized trees for ease of attending too but its on a track I need to get tractors down so bigger trees might actually be better long term....leaving room underneath!)

Apples and pears are obvious must haves...but which? I would like one red pear. we have lots of plums here, but none are really lovely..I like fat round plums. Love greengages and mirabelles too. . Plus these wretched peaches(like the idea of one with pink blossom and prefer freestones.)

Every time I make my mind up I get confused. The specialist nurseries seem non committal about advice and just recommend the most common things. I think common is probably common for a reason...but then....want different things too...novelty.

I read and re read descriptions on the well known fruit nursery sites and am just going round in circles. :o

Lotus-eater

RAS wrote: »

Having said that I planted Ellison's Orange and did not even know that tip bearers are not suitable for espaliers until after the framework was established. It has taken me time but I have finally learned to prune to produce a decent crop and sometimes a good crop.

I have what I think is an Ellison's Orange and I was a bit suprised to see that it was a tip bearer, I've always pruned it as a spur.
Bit of searching and the RHS seem to have it as a spur, but it seems it might be a tip and spur bearer.

Maybe you know more than that?

Andy_Davies

rhiwfield wrote: »

FWIW I agee in a small way with Defra that trade can improve food security in the event of a local crop failure. However for the UK to run a 40% deficit in food, at a time when our economy and political influence have declined, seems to me to be inherently stupid. It means that we have a need to import food rather than a contingent requirement.

Doesn't it depend on where the deficit comes from i.e. how much of the 40% is food we can't grow here?

And if those imports stopped do we have enough food here to replace the 40% e.g. the carrots that get ploughed back into fields, the wheat we export etc.

I wouldn't disagree that we may need to be more self-sufficient (or less oil dependent) but the situation may not be that bleak.

Waste (http://amzn.to/gQ0Qcq) by Tristram Stuart is a good read and shows how the world actually probably produces enough food to feed us all.

I think the work that people like Geoff Lawton has done in "Greening the Desert" also offers us quite a lot of hope too.

Andy

rhiwfield

Andy_Davies wrote: »

Doesn't it depend on where the deficit comes from i.e. how much of the 40% is food we can't grow here?

And if those imports stopped do we have enough food here to replace the 40% e.g. the carrots that get ploughed back into fields, the wheat we export etc.

I wouldn't disagree that we may need to be more self-sufficient (or less oil dependent) but he situation may not be that bleak.

Waste (http://amzn.to/gQ0Qcq) by Tristram Stuart is a good read and shows how the world actually probably produces enough food to feed us all.

I think the work that people like Geoff Lawton has done in "Greening the Desert" also offers us quite a lot of hope too.

Andy

Andy, the deficit is net after exports.

As I've said before, I'm not predicting armageddon. But the original point was how do we put food on the table with rising prices? Do we raid the holiday budget? Do we try to grow some of our own food, or perhaps start a community food growing group? And coming out of that what do we need to learn to be successful at growing our own food.

The risk factors I highlighted in the OP were mainly ones that would affect the economies of food production and transport. I dont doubt there are hope factors for future increase in food production including genetically modified crops, just as there are some very significant risk factors and a growing demand.

But specifically picking up on greening the desert, I notice no-one has yet mentioned changing growing techniques/water collecting to cope with predicted hotter, drier summers in the south east

Poosmate

Excellent thread Rhiwfield. I too have been wondering (a lot more recently) about push becoming shove. I believe I'm in the pre push area at the moment and have taken steps now to try to improve my circumstances in the future and stay ahead of the push.

As I know some of you are aware I registered my back garden on Landshare and now have 2 neighbours helping me to make it more productive. It's daunting though as none of us know much about growing fruit n veg and there's so much to learn and do. Still, we'll give it a go. I feel as though it's more important than ever now to push on ahead with this venture.

My main priority is to reduce my debts and get the minimum payments down so that, if needs must, I can revert to minimum payments in lean months.

When the shove comes, I guess I'll have to say goodbye to some channels on my cable tv package, maybe even dump it and get a freeview box and seperate internet supplier. Not sure about the freeview box - do they rely on a signal or cables? I am in a bit of a valley so can't get terestrial tv unless I get a seriously mast like arial!

I could also take in a lodger - not so keen on that (been there, done it) but it's better than getting a part time job (if that's even possible now!).

Of course Birthdays and Christmas could get interesting......

Mom: What do you want for your birthday Poo?
Poo: Jar of coffee, washing tabs, cleaning products, toilet rolls, ketchup, vinegar, tinned food, etc.

Well there are some of my contingency plans. I hope I don't have to implement them and if I do I hope they'll be enough!

Poo