Job Centre owe us £700!!

rajd

This is my first post and I need some advice. Bare with me it's a doozy.

So I live in a shared flat in Southampton where I have recently moved to for a job. The job is nothing special, I get paid minimum wage but work long hours so earn enough to get by and pay off some of my debts very very slowly.

After moving, my recently new girlfriend, who was a student, had to withdraw temporarily from university and defer the year. She was living on her fathers sofa as she had little money and no where else to go. While searching for jobs she decided to sign on for job seekers in Milton Keynes where her father lived.

The first point comes here: the jobcentre required a letter from her university to prove she was no longer a student. She received this within a week or so and presented it to the Jobcentre. She continued to sign on and was eventually paid for a couple of weeks. The jobcentre had seen and approved the fact she was't a student anymore.

After a further couple weeks, the situation at home was difficult and I was paying for a flat that I hardly used during the day and thought this would give her some space and time to get a job. After all she was my girlfriend however young the relationship. She came up to stay but was going back home to Milton Keynes to sign on in Milton Keynes so we decided she may as well sign on here and stay here more often.

Now here comes the first fun part. you would think that her details were easily accessible in a organisation that costs the taxpayer £4bn annually. How silly of us to possibly think such a thing! They said that they needed to request her paperwork from Milton Keynes and then process in Southampton and that she should continue to sign on every 2 weeks. She did so. Every 2 weeks. From September.

After not being paid anything for a month and me having to request over time at the expense of my health, she contacted asked what was going on, Southampton hadn't a clue. She had to call the central number. After 4 days of being hold at costs I dont even want to contemplate, she got through and was told her claim from Milton Keynes had been cancelled and there was nothing in the pipeline! One hour later, and 3 systems on the computer checked, her new claim in Southampton had been found. Only problem was, as far as they were concerned, she was a still a student!

After explaining the situation and that Milton Keynes had already seen and accepted that she was no longer a student, the advisor had no advice!! They had to request all the paperwork from STOCKTON!! and she still had to keep signing on all the while.

Another month down the line and no payment, I had now started to loose money through supporting us both. We queried again and Southampton still hadn't got a clue. She just had to keep signing on. She even got invited to a jobs workshop!

I had had enough by Mid-November and told her to sort it out. She said there was no reason the JSA wouldn't be paid, they just needed to sort out that she wasn't a student. A week later she received a letter asking her to come in for a compliance meeting. With nothing to hide she went and told them the situation. This was 3 months with no payment. They asked her about my situation and just my pay rate, not hours. She said minimum wage. I am 23 by the way so not even the highest rate minimum wage. She said that if she did not stay with me she would be homeless, which was true as her father no longer had space for her.

Still there was no payment or decision. We called all over December and still nothing. They did say that her claim was being processed by paper!! actual pieces of paper. Today, being the 5th of January 2011, she called up the central office and was told the compliance officer had decided that we were living as a married couple and she was not entitled to any JSA what so ever, not even contribution based. No letter was sent with this decision.

You can understand my fury at this. 4 months have gone without payment, we have been lead along all this time that its was just because they needed proof she was no longer a student, she kept signing on and doing what she needed to do. We were not given any indication she may not be paid, we could have adjusted our situation or I could have called in a favour from a friend and she could have moved into a spare room. She owes me in rent that will not get paid. I have had to spend on a credit card. How can anyone assume a couple who have only been together for 2 months are "married". Surely I should get some sort of tax refund or credit. This whole process is ludicrous. Do they not have to have a time limit to make decision or justify not paying somebody for a certain period of time especially if they are completing their side of the jobseekers agreement?

I could have made provisions and other plans for my money if I knew I would have to fully support her. However we were lead to believe it was coming, just late.

I am seriously considering getting a solicitor involved. I would not have had a problem if they had told us in the first few weeks or even the first month but 4 months!! Its simply just not right and I really need your advice.

Sorry for the length, but it is complicated but you are some of the most helpful people I know.
Thank You

Oldernotwiser

Seems a pretty fair decision to me; if you're living with someone with whom you're in a relationship than you'll be assessed as a couple.

nannytone_2

if she is your girlfriend, and you live in the smae property, in the eyes of the law you ARE 'living together as husband and wife'.
the onus is on the claimant to claim the correct benefit.
you may be eligable for LHA and/or CTB

enabledebra

If your girlfriend has only temporarily withdrawn from university she is still a full time student for benefit purposes and not eligible for JSA. I don't agree that you should be considered to be living together for benefit purposes but this doesn't affect the JSA issue. She needs to contact Student Finance England and ask for student funding to continue during her time out on the basis of hardship. She can ask the Access to Learning Fund at her University to consider financial assistance if SFE won't agree to help. She should contact her university advice centre for help with this.

tcr_3

So if you're not a couple, why are you the one doing the running and not her ? What's it to you ? Don't mean that to sound harsh, but that's the way they'll see it if go out stomping around the place with solicitors etc. Your behaviour just backs up their decision. "They owe us £700". Us. Not her, not my gf, us.

You can't say you're not an item, mate, c'mon.

As ONW says, you're in a relationship, under the same roof, you're an item & yours is the responsibility to support your partner. If she hasn''t paid enough NI stamps over the last couple of years she can't get JSA(C). And if you're working more than 24 hrs per week she can't get JSA(IB) either.

She's got the right of appeal if she wants. No point getting a solicitor involved, it'll just cost you.

Kimitatsu

No one owes you anything because you are not entitled to any other payments.

As far as the DWP are concerned you are living together as if you are married because you have a full time job and you are contributing to the household. She is not listed on the rental agreement so she does not owe you for any rent, and she will not have made 2 years full NI contributions so she is not entitled to any contributions based benefits.

Neither of you are 25 so are not entitled to working tax credits so to be honest, she needs to either get a job or move back to MK where she will be entitled to claim once again.

A good solicitor will not even file a claim against the DWP as the rules are clear, the issue is that you did not satisfy your duty of care in checking the rules before your girlfriend moved in.

rajd

Thank You for your replies.

@nannytone
What does LHA and CTB mean?


Ok so I understand that in the current situation yes it does look like we are living together but my point is that it has taken 4 months to come to this decision. @tcr - I have no issue accepting that we are a couple and I can make provisions to support her but with no indication from the job centre that this is the case and to falsely lead her on that it is because of her status as a student that is holding up payment. If we had known then I would have said she had to move out! Couchsurfing was an option. and yes i do use the term "us" because this affects both of us and she owes me money for putting her up.

But 4 months to make this decision and not inform her openly? Dont you think this is unacceptable?

I have looked into the definition of living together also. She does not have bills at my address, no post and most of her stuff is between her mothers and her fathers. We dont have joint bank accounts or anything. We've only known each other a few months.

She has simply stayed at my address.

And she has worked enough stamp to qualify for Contribution based JSA but that has also been refused on the same basis I guess.

I light of this decision would I be eligible for tax exemptions? and at what point are people supposed to be advised about these things? is it even in the job centres remit?

I have also had 3 pm's about people in similar situations, so please, I welcome anyone's input.

Thank for your replies.

Kimitatsu

Ok

First of all you ARE living together, you dont have seperate rooms to sleep in, you dont have seperate living areas, you shop together and you eat together. You pay the rent on the flat in which she stays and you pay for the food and council tax. How is that not living together?

She can apply for JSA on the basis it is contributions based but she will have had to pay full stamp for the last two years continuously, so a part time job will not necessarily have covered this. If she has been working whilst a student she may have had a tax exemption and so will not have paid enough.

You are not entitled to any rent from her, you have paid for her and if she chooses to pay you back then that is her decision but YOU are not entitled to anything. On your wages you are not entitled to Local Housing Allowance(LHA) or Council Tax Benefit (CTB) for a room in a shared flat. What tax exemptions do you think you would be eligible for?

Your best bet is to get your girlfriend to move out and continue your relationship as it was, write the money off to experience and move on with your lives.

HappyMJ

Kimitatsu wrote: »

Ok

First of all you ARE living together, you dont have seperate rooms to sleep in, you dont have seperate living areas, you shop together and you eat together. You pay the rent on the flat in which she stays and you pay for the food and council tax. How is that not living together?

She can apply for JSA on the basis it is contributions based but she will have had to pay full stamp for the last two years continuously, so a part time job will not necessarily have covered this. If she has been working whilst a student she may have had a tax exemption and so will not have paid enough.

You are not entitled to any rent from her, you have paid for her and if she chooses to pay you back then that is her decision but YOU are not entitled to anything. On your wages you are not entitled to Local Housing Allowance(LHA) or Council Tax Benefit (CTB) for a room in a shared flat. What tax exemptions do you think you would be eligible for?

Your best bet is to get your girlfriend to move out and continue your relationship as it was, write the money off to experience and move on with your lives.

As a couple they would be entitled to a 1 bedroom rate of LHA slightly higher than the shared rate. We don't know what the OP earns so may be entitled to claim LHA and/or CTB. Most people on minimum wages are entitled to some small payment of LHA. The tax exemptions I believe he refers to would be Working Tax Credits which they can apply for when he's 25.

rajd

Kimitatsu wrote: »

No one owes you anything because you are not entitled to any other payments.

As far as the DWP are concerned you are living together as if you are married because you have a full time job and you are contributing to the household. She is not listed on the rental agreement so she does not owe you for any rent, and she will not have made 2 years full NI contributions so she is not entitled to any contributions based benefits.

Neither of you are 25 so are not entitled to working tax credits so to be honest, she needs to either get a job or move back to MK where she will be entitled to claim once again.

A good solicitor will not even file a claim against the DWP as the rules are clear, the issue is that you did not satisfy your duty of care in checking the rules before your girlfriend moved in.

Thank you for this reply. I am 23, she is 28. Does this make a difference? She also made enough contributions.

How long though, should this decision by the job centre have taken?

Ignore the situation at this present moment in time. What about when she first made the claim in Southampton? Nothing has changed. They accepted and made her sign up every week since September.

Where is the job centre's duty of care?

Thanks

Kimitatsu

Can I ask how you know she has made enough contributions? If she had then she needs to go back to the job centre and appeal the decision as regardless of whether she lives with you she would be entitled to JSA. If you contact the local CAB then they will be able to help you appeal and may have a welfare benefits adviser who will be able to start it off for you. When your girlfriend made the original claim she would have been notified as to what sort of benefit she was getting by letter, does she still have the letter? You would soon find out what she has been awarded.

If she is over 25 then she can claim working tax credits if she is in work, but she has to be working over 30 hours a week. It is a means tested benefit so she would have to provide all of her details to them.

Have you checked out www.entitledto.co.uk you can put in all of your details and it will tell you if you are entitled to any sort of benefit and how to go about claiming it.

If the decision is under investigation then the Job Centre can sanction the payment for up to 26 weeks, and not wishing to be rude, but you are not the person who made the claim. So it may be that she was told some things but either they did not seem relevant or she discounted them at the time.

The job centre has 12 days in which they should make a decision on a NEW claim, but as this was an existing claim and also involved a change of circumstances then the job centre will probably argue that they did not want to make an overpayment. You need to get help on that one (see the CAB).