Stalked and threatened by car insurance compay "ADMIRAL"

Destination_Anywhere

Can anybody advise me on my dilema. I purchased my car insurance off Admiral in Feb 2005. I paid over the internet in full for the 12 months insurance. In 2006 I received a letter from them which I read vaguely and it was my renewal quote. It was too much so I shopped around and purchased a cheaper insurance. In May 2006 I received another letter from Admiral stating that I have been insured with them for three months and their attempt to take money from my account had failed. So I owe them 160 pounds.

I read back over my initial letter and discovered that the renewal quote stated that if I did not want the quote I had to phone them on an 0845 number. As I had not contacted them they assumed I wanted the insurance and tried to take the money in full from my account. Fortunately I had previously lost my card so the details that Admiral had were outdated.

I was stubborn and refused to contact them about this latest letter as I was not prepared to run up my phone bill on this matter. I ignored the letter and now the debt collectors were due round last week but I have not heard from them yet.

I believe that Admiral had no right to automatically renew my insurance.

I believe that after I purchased their policy and paid the money in full they should have destroyed my bank account deatails and it should not be legal for them to attempt to take 650pounds out my account without my autorisation. If my details had not changed that money would have been withdrawn and I would have had serious finacial problems.

Should I take legal action against them?

Can they black list me?

Can I legally refuse to pay?

Astaroth

Continuous Payment Authority is legal and a standard practice across the insurance industry.

They should however have informed you that they will be doing this - certainly from the letter that you received does suggest that they have done so in which case you dont have a leg to stand on.

On what grounds would you take legal action against them for?

They can 1) bar you from using any of their or any of their sister companies services 2) load you to the underwritting exchange stating you took out a policy with no intent to pay (most insurers have access to this) and your policy was voided - you would have to declare this to all insurers for ever more and most mainstream insurers will not want to touch you 3) load you to the counter fraud registery for no intent to pay (accessable by most insurers, banks, lenders and credit reference agencies) 4) Take you to court and get a CCJ against you for breach of contract

Obviously these are all the worst case options and it may be that Admiral do none of them but it could also be that they do all of them.

It appears you have done 2 common things.... 1 ticked the box to agree to the terms and conditions which includes:

Admiral.co.uk wrote:

At renewal

Unless we hear to the contrary, EUI Limited is entitled to assume at renewal that your details have not changed and you have the consent of the card holder.

If you wish to make changes to your policy then, unless you inform us otherwise, EUI Limited will charge the payment details (card or bank account) held on record for any additional amount due.

You may inform us of any changes or opt out of automatic renewal at any time by contacting our Customer Service department.

We may also contact you with a reminder that your insurance is due for renewal.

and 2 havent read your letter properly. Really have no one to blame but yourself.

dunstonh

When you enter into a contract, not notifying the other party that you are cancelling does mean that not paying it will act as cancelling it for you.

Many people make this mistake when cancelling a direct debit. All that does is cancel the method of payment. It doesnt cancel the contract. In your case, the contract never got cancelled and it became voided due to non payment after 3 months but you are still liable for that 3 month period.

Destination_Anywhere

Thanks,

You make some valid points, however it seems unethical to me to automatically renew a policy where your only choice of opting out is to telephone them on 0870 number which generates further revenue for their company.

You are correct in saying that I should take time into reading the small print thoroughy.

I argue that when I purchased my insurance I paid for it in full and I should not be obligated to contact them to tell them I don't want to renew it. If they are legally allowed to do this is opens doors for all sorts of company's to increase their proffits over 0870 numbers. For example when I purchase holidays over the internet the company could offer you the same holiday next year and if you don't want it telephone on 0870.....

I have doubts as to waether companies are allowed to keep your account information once the purchase has been made.

Thank you for your reply and I think I have some 0870 calls to make before the debt collectors invade my house...

Destination_Anywhere

Surely the contract I was under was for twelve months only. I had purchased the policy for 12months and had paid in full not as direct debit. The contract surely was therefore expired.

dunstonh

I have doubts as to waether companies are allowed to keep your account information once the purchase has been made.

Yes they can.

I hate these auto renewal policies and fully sympathise with you. However, it is ploy often used by the "cheaper" group of providers and no doubts goes some way to offset some of their lower premiums. I refuse to take out any contract that has an auto renewal on it.

surely the contract I was under was for twelve months only.

read the bit that Astaroth pasted. The contract included an auto-renewal.

SomeBozo

Destination_Anywhere wrote:

Thanks,

seems unethical to me to automatically renew a policy where your only choice of opting out is to telephone them on 0870 number

You could have wrote to them instead, or found out their geographical number.

Destination_Anywhere wrote:

I argue that when I purchased my insurance I paid for it in full and I should not be obligated to contact them to tell them I don't want to renew it. If they are legally allowed to do this is opens doors for all sorts of company's to increase their proffits over 0870 numbers. For example when I purchase holidays over the internet the company could offer you the same holiday next year and if you don't want it telephone on 0870.....

No, you would have a point there. The point is that "continous renewal" is standard in the insurance industry. Its part of your T&C's.

Its time for an apologetic phone call! :rolleyes:

A quick search on the net provides

02920 601294
02920 633500
0800 600800

these numbers for Admiral.

Some Bozo

Destination_Anywhere

Hey great loophole for diverting the 0870 number. Cheers 'Some Bozo'. Called them on 0800 600800, they told me that they were unable to help me but would put me through to customer services which is where the 0870 number would have taken me. I was on the phone 18 minutes which would have cost around 1.50ish but with 0800 I got it free.

A new predicument is that I had previously contacted their debt collector by email and had posted them evidence of my current insurance in about august (you can't have two insurance policy's on the same vehicle under the same name). I didn't hear anything until a couple of weeks back where a second debt collector sent me a simular letter to the first. I assumed Admiral now employed different debt collectors. However the NICE lady who I was talking to stated that Admiral don't use this debt collector who is sending me letters.

Now thats a head scratcher.

In conclusion the NICE lady said the charge has been wiped but this debt collector remains a mystery.

dunstonh

There was a news article on the radio this morning about fake debt company claims going out.

Astaroth

As others have said.... the cheapest companies tend to increase its income by use of higher cost telephone numbers and more expensive admin charges etc. People should look at the total cost and not just the upfront one.

I think there has to be some realism about 0870 numbers as well... at most a company can make is 5p per minute and in reality majority are less than this. Admiral (as far as I am aware) only have UK call centres and so the £3.00 per hour they get in from the phones certainly doesnt even cover the cost of the staffs salary let alone all the other operational costs.

With motor insurance in general you are talking about reducing losses more than profit too.... the ABI report that in 2005 the personal lines motor book in the uk made losses of £232,000,000 (http://www.abi.org.uk/Display/File/524/Public_General_Business_Tables.xls)

Destination_Anywhere

Thanks to you all for your time in replying to me. Although you have all pretty much told me its my own fault. Well I guess life is all about learning and I have learned that no matter how boring and tedious samll print can be I will make sure I read it in future.

Businesses are businesses and they have to make proffits where they can which is fine as long as its not out my pocket. Think this debt company needs reporting though...

Cheers all