Another deposit enquiry

samuellification

Hi everyone,
Myself and my partner moved in to a private rental house about 6 years ago, with a months bond. At the time of showing us around, the landlords said they hadn't really looked at it, and said they'd get us new lino for the kitchen before we moved in, but that was it. The place was liveable but not especially clean and in dire need of decoration, which we did, and there was a huge pile of rubbish in the garden we had to move. We received no inventory or receipt of bond (rather naively I'm afraid, we were very young!)
We have just moved out, and as we have not decorated since, the walls look a little shabby, but we cleaned up, and there was some wood in the garden which we didn't move as it was snowing.
The landlords said we could not have our bond in full as they would have to hire a professional cleaning company, buy a new cooker as ours is "unusable" and hire a skip for the rubbish in the garden. I said OK wait, we'll get the stuff from the garden and give it another clean. We have now done this, the cooker is (in my opinion and my mum's!) clean apart from scorch marks where the cheap door doesn't close properly, and we have cleaned all windows and skirting boards. They say they are going to redocorate and refit the kitchen with new cooker, but that the place is still not clean enough. We have photos after the clean up, but now they still say they will only return half the bond.
Should I simply request receipts of what they plan to do, or should I push further now to make sure we get it all back? Sorry for the long message, I'm finding this all very difficult!

samuellification

Oh,
Just to clarify, the landlords have only been round once in 5 and a half years, and have done NO maintenance on the house whatsoever.

gorgeouslatinrose

was the deposit registered in a deposit scheme?

G_M

You moved in before April 2007? So the deposit is not protected in a scheme?
The LL has "said we could not have our bond in full ". Verbally or in writing? This matters as you apparantly have no proof a deposit was even paid unless the LL has admitted this in writing.

Your only recourse is the Small Claims Court. Without an inventory, the LL will be unable to show that you are leaving the property in a worse condition than when you moved in. It would help, of course, if you have photos from when you moved in, but I'm guessing not......?

tbs624

You have to return the property & any furnishings in the same condition as when originally let, save for fair wear and tear. If the LL wants to apportion dirt or damage to you he has to be able to produce evidence of the original state of the property and show that any dirt/damage is down to you.

They can ask you to a clean a property "to a professional standard" if that is how it was when you moved in, and they can show that was the case.

After a 6 year let it would be expected that a property would be in need of redecoration. I note that you say you redecorated - did you have the consent of the LL to do this and did you do it to a "reasonable" standard"? Again , if you have painted the walls in outlandish colours or made a poor job of it and the LL can show that it was flawless magnolia and white gloss from the word go then he may be able to apportion some of the costs to you.

Did you report in writing the problems with the oven door not fitting, and causing scorch marks? It is important that Ts always do this with any repairs issues because that way they cover themsleves from accusations that their failure to do so caused damage that would not have been as bad had the LL had the opportunity to rectify the matter asap.

It's good that you have the "after "photos - just a pity you don't have the start of tenancy ones too.

You say you have no receipt for the deposit - did you pay in cash? Presumably after 6 years the LL has forgotten that he did not give you a receipt? It may be that you have to push it as far as you can but if you wanted to pursue the matter to court you would need to be able to show that you definitely paid that deposit. Do you have a letter from him referring to the deposit return/deductions or any other paperwork that refers to a deposit actually having been paid?

What you can do initially is *write* to the LL referring to the tenancy address and tenancy dates, and the return of "my deposit of £xxx pounds, paid to you on (date)". Thank him for his phone call (if that's how the above discussions were conducted)and for the opportunity to ensure that you were able to leave the property in the same condition as when let to you, save for fair wear and tear. Say that you disagree with his proposed deductions and look forward to receiving the return of the full deposit or written confirmation of those proposed deductions within 7 working days, so that you can pursue the matter further. If he sends you just some o f the deposit and you do wish to challenge him for the full amount you would have to respond by saying that you did not accept that amount as "full and final settlement"

BitterAndTwisted

If there was no inventory at the start of the tenancy the landlord is going to have a very hard time indeed justifying any deductions from the deposit.

Redecoration after a six-ear tenancy should be expected by the landlord and is not a justified expense to charge the outgoing tenants.

You are going to have to threaten to go to the small claims court and if the landlord doesn't give in you will actually have to go through with it.

Write the landlord a letter headed "Letter Before Action" confirming your deposit of x paid on y date adn requesting the return of it in full within 14 days. Send two copies by first-class post from two different Post Offices retaining proof of postage for both.

Then, should the landlord not return your deposit, file a claim in the Small Claims Court. This will cost you about £50 but when the court find in your favour they should award you your costs against the landlord.

Your position is and should be that the lack of a full, dual-signed inventory means that the landlord has absolutely no proof of the condition of the property and all of its contents at the start of the tenancy so cannot prove that what they are complaining of was done during your tenancy. If you have any witnesses that you can call upon the confirm that the property was not clean and that you did the decorating and rubbish-removal at your own expense that would be extremely compelling evidence to the court.

samuellification

Thank you very much for your quick and detailed responses. In answer to your questions, I have a double payment on my bank records where I paid in both bond and rent, but no more than this. I have a letter from the landlord saying my bond cannot be paid in full and therefore at least some proof that I did pay.

I will go ahead with what you said, he is meant to be calling me back to confirm the amount payable, so unless he pays me all back, I will say to him that without a dual inventory I will take it further.

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.

tbs624

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

If there was no inventory at the start of the tenancy the landlord is going to have a very hard time indeed justifying any deductions from the deposit.

Agreed but note also that the T says she does not have a receipt for the tenancy deposit so, as I say, she needs to have some other way of proving that she *did* pay it if she wants to pursue the matter to court.

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Redecoration after a six-ear tenancy should be expected by the landlord and is not a justified expense to charge the outgoing tenants.

Except that the T says she redecorated the property herself so may inadvertently have given the LL cause to be able to apportion some of the costs to the Ts if she did so without their permission ( & if the LL were able to prove that they had worsened the decor)

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Write the landlord a letter headed "Letter Before Action" confirming your deposit of x paid on y date adn requesting the return of it in full within 14 days...................Your position is and should be that the lack of a full, dual-signed inventory means that the landlord has absolutely no proof of the condition of the property and all of its contents at the start of the tenancy so cannot prove that what they are complaining of was done during your tenancy.

Similarly, the lack of a deposit receipt, or any other acknowledgement from the LL that the T did indeed pay that deposit, means that the T has no proof on her part ...... that's why she needs to get the LL to confirm in a response letter. After all, he wouldn't write proposing deductions if she *hadn't* paid a deposit, would he?

Edit: response from OP not there when I started. That's good that you already have a letter from the LL. You need to be able to show the court that you have tried to reach resolve prior to proceeding to the court so if LL phones, do write a follow up letter outlining your understanding of the telephone conversation and keep a copy.

samuellification

Hi,
Thanks, yes when we moved in he said we could decorate "however we like" but "nothing too bizarre", he hasn't contested the painting, only that he will sort that and that is not coming out of our bond, only professional cleaning and a new oven. The oven was bought for us around 3 or 4 years ago.
Please see above re. proof of bond paid.

BitterAndTwisted

Scorch-marks on an oven-door does not warrant a complete replacement of the whole cooker! Do you know the manufacturer? Have a look on something like ukwhitegoods.co.uk to price up the cost of a new door. If it's 3 or 4 years old you shouldn't have to pay 100% of the replacement cost in any case. I'd estimate it at less than 50%