DVLA penalty charge help!!

deanh1

Hi can anyone help with putting together a letter to the DVLA for me?

Back in June 2009, i left my car at my dads whilst i went on holiday for 2 weeks. The reason being was that the MOT was due after i got back and the car needed work doing which my dad was going to do whilst i was away as he is a mechanic.
Whilst on holiday my dad informed me that the car was beyond repair due to needing a large amount of welding around the back axle and the boot floor/suspension mounts.
We made the decision for him to keep the car and break it, and i took his.
The car was kept on his driveway, and i cashed 1 months tax in and declared it SORN.
After a few weeks, the car was completely stripped, and not even classed as a shell, more like several pieces of scrap metal.
My dad then got a local scrap dealer to collect what was left, and i sent the relevant paperwork off informing DVLA the car was now scrapped.
Fast forward to September 2010 (over 12 months)and i was baffled to receive a letter from the DVLA Continuous Registration Centre, informing me i am liable for a late penalty of £80 or £40 if i pay early, for not declaring SORN again.
I wrote back to them informing SORN not declared due to being scrapped and that i had submitted the relevant documents and was no longer its keeper.
I received a letter back stating they did not receive notification, and that it was up[ to me to chase the acknowledgement letter.
I then replied i had not received the acknowledgement, and because it was well over 12 months ago, i had forgotten about the whole thing, but that i cannot be to blame for the postal service had they not received the letter. I explained that i am fully aware that i was required to notify the DVLA regarding the vehicle being scrapped. I was also still liable for the £80 charge or £40 if i paid early.

I wrote back stating that i thought i was being treated unfairly as the postal service reliability was beyond my control etc and that i had submitted my paperwork to them.
I then received a final letter from them mid Dec stating that the decision was final and that further correspondence would lead to nothing further being gained, plus i no longer had the option to pay the reduced penalty, but if i did not pay by 30th Dec the matter will be referred to a Debt Collection Agency or a claim via County Court.

i have read all the other posts regarding the matter, and believe i have a decent argument, but i would rather not end up in court due to my job.
Also if i pay, then i am admitting guilt, which i am not guilty.

Please help!!

THanks

Rossy.

You will best off posting in here mate

Site is dedicated to fines etc

http://www.pepipoo.com/

simpywimpy

I had this sort of thing happen to me. Apparently the DVLA just say its your own responsibility to make sure they received the docs you sent them.

I had to just pay up

Wig

You could send a letter similar to this....seems this letter will get them to drop it.

snooplotty wrote:

Dear DVLA,

I received your letter 18/02/10 and telephoned your office as requested and spoke to one of your colleagues. He advised me to put in writing everything I told him. Please note although I have been advised NOT to disclose my defence should this matter go to court, but as a matter of goodwill on my part have decided to and hopefully this letter will resolve any issues and the court proceeding will cease.

I sold this car in August 2008, and mailed the V5 document via 1st class post (as I have always done when selling a car – with no problems!). It wasn’t till Late 2009 until I received a letter saying that somebody was applying to be the registered keeper of this vehicle and to ignore the letter if this was OK, so I ignored the letter. A month later I received another letter stating that I was being fined for failure to notify a change of registered keeper. I telephoned your office regarding this letter and the person I spoke to was extremely unhelpful and didn’t listen to what I had to say. Basically he told me to pay the fine or go to court. The road tax for this vehicle was due for renewal in September 2008, yet I have not received any correspondence from the DVLA in regard to this matter, which seems a bit odd to me.

Below are some legal points of which I have followed.

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002

“Change of keeper: registration document issued in Great Britain on or after 24th March 1997 and the new keeper not a vehicle trader
22. (2) The registered keeper of the vehicle -
(a) if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, shall deliver to the new keeper that part of the document marked as the part which is to be given to the new keeper; and

(b) shall forthwith deliver the remainder of the registration document to the Secretary of State, duly completed to include the following -
(i) the name and address of the new keeper;

(ii) the date on which the vehicle was sold or transferred to the new keeper;

(iii) a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and that the details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

(iv) a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct.”


Interpretation Act 1978
7 References to service by post

“Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.”


As I previously stated I used 1st class post to “deliver” the V5 document which complies with both regulations above.


The DVLA states that I have no defence because I did not receive confirmation from them. This confirmation letter from the DVLA is not a legal requirement!


As stated in Human Rights Act 1998, Schedule 1, Article 6, section 2

“Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law. "



I have no proof of posting the V5 document because I have never done so before. I also believe that I should not have to prove that I posted the V5 document and if this matter does indeed go to court it should be down to the DVLA to prove that I did not.


I look forward to receiving your comments on this matter

The red bit will have to be changed to a section more relevant to notification of scrappage/disposal.

If you do end up in court with them, your defence is that there is no debt owed to DVLA because you did all that you were required to do under the relevant Acts, you filled out your notice of scrapping and sent it to DVLA, that is all the law requires you to do. The law says nothing about chasing the DVLA to check they have received or actioned your notice. In addition you can cite the "Interpretation Act" There is also the Human Rights Act, Article 6 (roughly) gives everyone who is faced with conviction or a fine, penalty or forfeiture the right to an independent tribunal established in law within a reasonable time, which AFAIK the DVLA does not do.

The best thing you can do is read this thread pay some attention to post 45 but not a lot because the letter above apparently will work so you might asswell send it now.
follow the link in post #15 i.e. this one
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?249629-DVLA-Failure-to-notify-new-keeper-fine-court-case-dropped


Read this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/03/dvla_court

The case of Mr Collins v DVLA is somewhere on the internet, I've read it before from the horses mouth - quite amusing - but I've forgotten where to find it.


I would say if you want a simplified version of that letter just mention the fact that you did notify them, you complied with all your legal requirements there is no legal requirement to chase the DVLA and the Interpretations Act says that your posted notification of scrapping is deemed under the law to have been delivered. It is well known that the DVLA lose a lot of mail, and you cannot be held responsible for their inefficiencies (SP?)

purplerose

If they have no record of you sending in paperwork on their system then as far as the DVLA is concerned you did not inform them that you had scrapped the vehicle. You are responsible for informing the DVLA and should have received an acknowledgement from them that you were no longer the registered keeper. People are advised to wait 4 weeks and if they receive no acknowledgement then it is up to the registered keeper to chase it up and make sure they get one and then hold onto it. Without it there is no proof to say you did what you said you did - loads of other people are caught out exactly the same way. This information is on the V5 document and freely available on the internet.

It sucks but if I were you I'd pay up; once it's been referred to debt collection or the county court the continuous registration centre are likely to consider the case closed and refer you to correspond with whichever agency you've been passed onto.

spiro

purplerose wrote: »

If they have no record of you sending in paperwork on their system then as far as the DVLA is concerned you did not inform them that you had scrapped the vehicle. You are responsible for informing the DVLA and should have received an acknowledgement from them that you were no longer the registered keeper. People are advised to wait 4 weeks and if they receive no acknowledgement then it is up to the registered keeper to chase it up and make sure they get one and then hold onto it. Without it there is no proof to say you did what you said you did - loads of other people are caught out exactly the same way. This information is on the V5 document and freely available on the internet.

It sucks but if I were you I'd pay up; once it's been referred to debt collection or the county court the continuous registration centre are likely to consider the case closed and refer you to correspond with whichever agency you've been passed onto.

The acknowledgement is also useful in the case of a sale when things like speeding tickets are sent to the old keeper. Just return the ticket with a copy of the acknowledgement from the DLVA and thats the end of it. Without the acknowledgement its all sorts of hassle to prove it wasn't you.

zzzLazyDaisy

I know this isn't going to help OP, but for future reference I always send important documents by royal mail special delivery. It costs £4, but it is guaranteed to arrive the next day. Also you can download the name and signature of the person who signed for it, and it often also states the department they work for.

I always give this advice for benefit claimants and have used it on a couple of occasions when the DWP have insisted that they have not received a form within a specified period. On both occasions the form then miraculously turned up.

But either way, I always follow up if I have not heard from organisations within a couple of weeks - it comes from hard experience!

To OP, I'd bite the bullet and pay the fine. It is going to be a long hard battle with a lot of stress, and if you need to avoid court action because of your job, it just isn't going to be worth the hassle (in my view)

esmerobbo

If you Did send the correct portion of the V5c to DVLA, there is no case to answer. Your legal obligation is to send that upon scraping by post. If you posted it then you have 100% fulfilled your legal duty (Asuming it was filled out too of course). There is no requirement for you to contact them in 4 weeks and indeed there never was. They did state on the V5 that you will receive confirmation AFTER 4 weeks and if you don't receive it you should contact them. But there is no legal duty to do so and in any event, after 4 weeks could mean 4 weeks and a day or 4 years. They are both AFTER 4 weeks.

Bottom line, if you sent the appropriat portion of the V5c in yourself, upon scraping the car in then you have done what is legally required.

Quentin

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

I know this isn't going to help OP, but for future reference I always send important documents by royal mail special delivery. It costs £4, but it is guaranteed to arrive the next day. Also you can download the name and signature of the person who signed for it, and it often also states the department they work for.

Although you say they "guarantee" next day delivery for special delivery, that doesn't mean they will deliver it the next day!

That guarantee is pretty worthless because if they fail to keep to this, all they do is give you the postage back.

And it's not £4 - the cheapest is £5.05.

Cheaper to get a proof of posting (free) or pay an extra 74p on top of a normal stamp for recorded delivery to get proof of posting and a signature on delivery. (If they fail to get a sig, then you get your 74p back!)

Rexy

Proof of posting is all you require, I even use it when sending my Blockbuster DVD's back, as there was an issue once, to prove I posted them.

Recorded Delivery is good if you want to be able to track important documents that you may want back, such as birth certificate, passport etc but always ensure that a return address is on the envelope.

I would suggest that you only use Special Delivery for time sensetive documents.

Getting back to the subject, I do think that it is unreasonable for the DVLA to slap fines on innocent people because of their administrative failures. They are not perfect, and loads of bodies public and private are rubbish at admin.

Strider590

The DVLA are about making money, if they spot a chance to slap a fine on you they're extremely difficult to get rid of and refuse to admit when they're wrong.....