Redeployment, redundancy and the future...

WorriedPublicServant

Hi all,

I am really here looking for advice and a place to tell my story where there is less emotion (family and friends won't necessarily tell me how it is, and are probably fed up anyway!)

The last year has been somewhat hectic, having been in a 'secure' permanent job for four years, the post was cut due to in year spending review. I was placed in redeployment and offered the first job I was interviewed for. Sounds good, but despite the 'choice' retorick, (although obviously I was grateful for a job) I basically had to do whatever HR said and there were many draw backs. First, I was down graded as redeployment only allows you to stay the same grade or lower. Second, once I was offered the first job I had to take it (it was the only job I didn't want of the four I was due to interview for!) Third, I had no opportunity to take redundancy instead, which I would actually have preferred as I was offered an external job around the same time. At the time I couldn't afford to take a pay cut if I walked away with nothing else.

Now, as I was downgraded I received compensation for the difference between the posts which I received in my first full pay check after changing jobs. Knowing just how much pain is to come in the public sector I asked a lot of questions and was assured that I would only have to pay this back pro rata if I left for another job.

I am yet to receive a contract for my new post and have been there about three months. I have just discovered that my new section is going into reorganisation so I'm about to go through the process for the third time in six months. On contacting HR I was told that if I am made redundant I have to pay back my compensation pro rata despite my argument that being made to leave is different to going voluntarily. Unfortunately for me, since the last time I was in this position redundancy has been slashed and now I will effectively be left with a bill for a couple of thousand pounds if I am made redundant even after taking redundancy into account. Advice on whether they can really do this and how it would be likely to be repaid would be welcome - my questions have so far been answered with 'financial services would be in touch'.

So, I am now left in the position of having to fight for a post in the new structure, a post I don't like on a lower salary than where I was three months ago, or looking to get a voluntary redundancy deal (if there is any scope for one). I have been building up a business part time and could get consultancy work in my old area I think, but taking the plunge is somewhat frightening. In terms of my personal life I have a partner (working full time), a mortgage but no kids. As I am 25 I am paying off the remainder of student debt but am close to being solvent again if you don't count the actual student loan.

If anybody can help with compensation payment issues or experience of asking for a voluntary deal in the public sector I would be very interested to hear from them.

Thanks for reading,

getmore4less

I think since you wanted to leave you should have fought against the redeployment job as not a suitable alternative since it was lower pay/demotion.

lucylucky

getmore4less wrote: »

I think since you wanted to leave you should have fought against the redeployment job as not a suitable alternative since it was lower pay/demotion.

The above is correct.

If your original post was made redundnat then you could have, and perhaps should have, refused the redeployment as it was not suitable alternative employment.

Personally I would be looking to consult a good employment lawyer who may be able to offer some constructive advice.

I am not sure if the time-scale would allow you to appeal against the redeployment but it would be worth investigating.

It sounds as if you have been shafted.:(

WorriedPublicServant

Alas my worries seem to have been confirmed.

We were told that by not going along with the redeployment process that we were liable to be let go with no redundancy at all for not playing ball.

getmore4less

Common scare tacktics,

Where were the union/employee reps during this process they should have informed staff they did not have to accept jobs on offer if they were not suitable alternatives.

I think you could fight for the payments made as compensation to remain if they get rid of you.

Now is the time to get the union/employee reps to do their jobs

CFC

You shouldn't have believed them, you should have done your own research or asked around, the first time. Why do you believe them the second time? Have you got it in writing, did you sign something when they gave you the payment? Was it in your redeployment meeting notes? I'd suggest that if they have not actually told you at any point, or given you a letter, that they could whistle for the money.

redunderhead

hi

I sympathise.

as my nickname suggests, I was redundified 11 years ago. I'm now 58. been pottering about doing bits and pieces for 11 years. naff all these days.


now

you haven’t given us a lot of info with which to help you, and some of the comments from others have been a little harsh, but perhaps fair, so

yes you have probably handled it badly.

no, all is not lost.

a few questions:

1. did/do you work for a local authority? or for the NHS or police or other truly public body, or was it an arms length body like some of the housing management organisations or such?

this is a key question because it relates to your rights, the law and your likely support.

for example if some dunderhead HR twerps have been telling you porkies, and you worked for a local authority and you are still in their employment albeit in a different job, then you should be able to get a lot of advice and support from a little known (at least to other posters here) organisation called:

your trade union!

as a union memberr you get masses of free legal advice without having to pay an expensive lawyer.

so

2. are you in a union?
3. if not can you still join one? if you can please do so now and get their help.

(it would be churlish of me to say that you should've been in the union since day 1 of your work there, paying your sub to support the union so that they can support you and all the other public sector workers when your employer does the dirty on you. unlike me, unions are forgiving and welcoming as a matter of policy - so please don't be put off by old gits like me grumbling about folk who aren't in unions.)

so get joined up. it'll cost you a monthly sub, the cost of a few beers. I think its worth it. its not too late IMHO, because what they’ve told you is a right load of cobblers, IMHO. I think I can see lots of breaches of employment law implied in what you've told us - HR depts these days tend to be a deadly combination of arrogance and ignorance, making it possible for crafty unions to fight them.

also it sounds like 'constructive dismissal' to me - meaning that if you leave now, to either start your own business (good luck in this climate) or to get another job (u mentioned one possibility?) you may be able to bring a case which argues that you were in effect forced out. that’s what constructive dismissal means - its the crime of effectively sacking someone by making them leave. another reason I say this is because I got suspicious of them when you said 'they offered me the only job I didn't want' - deliberately offering you a job you don't want is a classic stunt, known in the trade as 'sickening you off'. what happens next is if they don't want you or like you, they treat you badly, find fault, you get stressy and make mistakes, they do you under 'competence' which you fail because you're a bag of nerves so they then legally sack you, leaving you with no job, no payoff and crucially thinking that you have no comeback. now, I'm not trying to mislead you here, people who have been sickened out of a job like that hardly ever get reinstated, but often the union can negotiate a payment to avoid a court case, which is better than a poke in the eye given that you didn't want the job anyway.

I don't know if its too late to demand one of those other jobs you mentioned - probably all been given to others, but if you're planning to leave anyway then join the union and get advice.

and don't take any notice of anything I've said
or of anyone else, until
you have joined the union !
and got their advice!

on here you willl get encouragement and good suggestions, but it's all just talk until a legal expert has advised you.

for free legal advice - join the union!

oh and finally

join the union!


best of luck

PS did I mention joining the union?