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A dispute with landlord over return of deposit
paykanti
Posts: 22 Forumite
This is a scenario which has emerged for my sister recently and I was hoping to hear some views as to her position as I myself have little experience in the matter. I have read all correspondence between my mother and her landlord and I will try to be as concise and comprehensive in the information as I can. I appreciate it's quite a long case so will fully understand if it goes by unanswered. Regardless, thank you for your time.
The General Timeline of Events
My sister was a tenant at this property for just over 6 years.
The landlord was unable to effect a joint-inspection so my sister dropped the keys off at the landlords office.
The landlord inspected the property soon after and told my sister about an alleged state of disrepair in which the property was left (things such as walls, blinds, garage door and carpets).
Landlord notified my sister that he will be getting estimates of the costs that would be needed and that he would keep the deposit.
My sister wrote to dispute the retention of her deposit.
The landlord wrote back with details of the deductions and their reasons.
Numbers
The landlord is claiming the entire £1,100 deposit.
The landlord's claim breakdown:
Cost of two weeks rent due to delay caused by repairing property - £400
Painting: £1100
New garage door: £160
Carpet and house cleaned (in line with a Cleaning Bond of £150 stated in the tenancy agreement)
New blinds: Undisclosed
Total cost of repairs to reinstate the property to the way it was at start of my sister's tenancy: £1400
Hence, landlord's total cost and lost of income: £1800
Landlord stated that due to the long tenancy and good relations with my sister, he would not be seeking any further reimbursement beyond the £1,100 which fails to cover the £1,800 figure.
Sister's Points
My sister's point is that she deemed the property to be in a good condition.
She had informed the landlord of the garage door 3 months prior to her departure and disagreed with the need for the blinds to be replaced or the carpets to be cleaned.
She also thinks she should have been the one to obtain quotations for the repair work (for example, she had got a quote of £500 to paint the whole property a few months before her departure as she was thinking of changing the colour scheme).
She also told me that she should not be held accountable to minor redecoration as 10% of her rent (over £5,000 over the duration of the tenancy) is tax-allowable on the grounds that it is used to offset the cost of any wear and tear during the tenancy. If this is true, then I think she may have a point as the only costs which the landlord had to incur by her recollection were a new boiler, a new oven cooker, fitting a new floor for the bathroom, replacing the bathroom's wash basin taps and installing a shower screen (which all comes to significantly less than that amount).
Landlord's Points and Contract Clauses
The garage door was not replaced earlier due to my sister saying that she would be moving out in the near future and that it would have been at her own cost anyway.
The landlord claims to have a signed statement from the incoming tenant as to the state of the property prior to redecoration and a statement from the carpet cleaners who expressed dismay at the state of the carpets as well as receipts for all work carried out.
In addition to listed costs by my sister, the landlord states that he maintained British Gas Homecare Cover for all electricity, central heating and plumbing that arose in the property as well as carrying out all repairs at the total cost of £1,800.
A clause in the contract states the tenant to "keep the premises and contents in and about tidy and clean and in good condition, repair and decorative order" and also that the tenant "yield up the premises at the end of the tenancy in the same clean state and condition as it was at the beginning of the tenancy and make good, pay for the repair of or replace all such items of the fixture, fittings, furniture and effects as shall be broken, lost, damaged or destroyed during the Tenancy, fair wear and tear expected".
The General Timeline of Events
My sister was a tenant at this property for just over 6 years.
The landlord was unable to effect a joint-inspection so my sister dropped the keys off at the landlords office.
The landlord inspected the property soon after and told my sister about an alleged state of disrepair in which the property was left (things such as walls, blinds, garage door and carpets).
Landlord notified my sister that he will be getting estimates of the costs that would be needed and that he would keep the deposit.
My sister wrote to dispute the retention of her deposit.
The landlord wrote back with details of the deductions and their reasons.
Numbers
The landlord is claiming the entire £1,100 deposit.
The landlord's claim breakdown:
Cost of two weeks rent due to delay caused by repairing property - £400
Painting: £1100
New garage door: £160
Carpet and house cleaned (in line with a Cleaning Bond of £150 stated in the tenancy agreement)
New blinds: Undisclosed
Total cost of repairs to reinstate the property to the way it was at start of my sister's tenancy: £1400
Hence, landlord's total cost and lost of income: £1800
Landlord stated that due to the long tenancy and good relations with my sister, he would not be seeking any further reimbursement beyond the £1,100 which fails to cover the £1,800 figure.
Sister's Points
My sister's point is that she deemed the property to be in a good condition.
She had informed the landlord of the garage door 3 months prior to her departure and disagreed with the need for the blinds to be replaced or the carpets to be cleaned.
She also thinks she should have been the one to obtain quotations for the repair work (for example, she had got a quote of £500 to paint the whole property a few months before her departure as she was thinking of changing the colour scheme).
She also told me that she should not be held accountable to minor redecoration as 10% of her rent (over £5,000 over the duration of the tenancy) is tax-allowable on the grounds that it is used to offset the cost of any wear and tear during the tenancy. If this is true, then I think she may have a point as the only costs which the landlord had to incur by her recollection were a new boiler, a new oven cooker, fitting a new floor for the bathroom, replacing the bathroom's wash basin taps and installing a shower screen (which all comes to significantly less than that amount).
Landlord's Points and Contract Clauses
The garage door was not replaced earlier due to my sister saying that she would be moving out in the near future and that it would have been at her own cost anyway.
The landlord claims to have a signed statement from the incoming tenant as to the state of the property prior to redecoration and a statement from the carpet cleaners who expressed dismay at the state of the carpets as well as receipts for all work carried out.
In addition to listed costs by my sister, the landlord states that he maintained British Gas Homecare Cover for all electricity, central heating and plumbing that arose in the property as well as carrying out all repairs at the total cost of £1,800.
A clause in the contract states the tenant to "keep the premises and contents in and about tidy and clean and in good condition, repair and decorative order" and also that the tenant "yield up the premises at the end of the tenancy in the same clean state and condition as it was at the beginning of the tenancy and make good, pay for the repair of or replace all such items of the fixture, fittings, furniture and effects as shall be broken, lost, damaged or destroyed during the Tenancy, fair wear and tear expected".
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Comments
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Was an inventory performed when your sister first moved in ?0
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Well, was the property and all its contents given back to the landlord in the same state as at the beginning of the tenancy or not?
Was there a dual-signed inventory at the beginning of the tenancy?0 -
This is why I hate renting!! I will buy a house one day...!2025 Mortgage start £378K 2025 Overpayment £103 Savings Challenge 2025 **MONEY MAKES ME HAPPY**0
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Was an inventory performed when your sister first moved in ?BitterAndTwisted wrote: »Well, was the property and all its contents given back to the landlord in the same state as at the beginning of the tenancy or not?
Was there a dual-signed inventory at the beginning of the tenancy?
I'll need to ask these from her and get back to you tomorrow.
Regarding that 10% tax-allowable point, is my sister correct? If so, then if the costs and expenses that they've incurred are less than that £5,000 figure, then she's got a strong case, no? And from what I saw of the property a few weeks before she left it, it was in a good condition. Would she still be required to have the walls and carpets in the exact same condition as the newly painted walls and new carpet that she received or would there be some leeway given she had lived there for 6 years?0 -
Your best bet is to find out about the inventory as it makes a huge difference to the matter.
Also do you know if the deposit was in the correct deposit scheme, if you don't know find out about that as well as it will also make a lot of difference0 -
Long and short...
Does sister think she has damaged property? If answer is no, landlord has to prove that she has before taking her money to rectify problems.
Landlord will have terrible trouble proving condition at start of tenancy and state at the end of the tenancy without independant verification. Also, if a new tenant moved in, presumably viewings were undertaken by prospective tenants of the property? If so, someone entered the property between your sister moving out and them moving in (oh and the landlord, whos muddy feet could have damaged any carpet!). Evidentially that proves more than one party could have caused damage that can't be proved anyway, let alone proved to be your sister. Small claims court could be a lovely day out if there is no evidence for him to withold the deposit (and of course deposit isn't in a scheme, if it is you can badger them instead).
Were there new tenancies signed in those 6 years or was it one tenancy that continued as a periodic one? Someone will be able to then clarify whether any deposit should have been registered. I think it was post April 2007 in England and Wales?
I have to say I committed quite a lot of my time last year to dispute a deposit deduction of £50 for the cleaning of an appliance I left cleaner than when we moved in to a previous property. I absolutely deplore people trying to make a 'fast buck' out of people actually leaving the property in a better condition than they rented it in. Needless to say I got my £50 back. I sit safely in the knowledge that the property is now being rented out for much less money to people who smoke more than most coal fire chimneys. Hopefully they still haven't had the good sense to have an independant inventory undertaken (not one within 9 months of the move in date anyway, like ours was, lol) so can take the hit on actual smoke damage to the property to make up for the attempted £50 shuffle from me. I was remarkably impressed at the 7 or 8 pages of very eloquently worded conclusions the dispute resolution person actually made from a case over £50. They obviously take their job very seriously.0 -
I'll need to ask these from her and get back to you tomorrow.
Regarding that 10% tax-allowable point, is my sister correct? If so, then if the costs and expenses that they've incurred are less than that £5,000 figure, then she's got a strong case, no? And from what I saw of the property a few weeks before she left it, it was in a good condition. Would she still be required to have the walls and carpets in the exact same condition as the newly painted walls and new carpet that she received or would there be some leeway given she had lived there for 6 years?
Her case is entirely based on the fact she did not cause damage to the property. Deviations about tax allowances or whether quotes were reasonable muddy the waters. Your sister doesn't believe she should pay anything because she did not cause damage to anything nor leave it in a condition less than what she received the property in, minus fair wear and tear. Don't get too concerned with 'she didn't get the opportunity to get quotes' or tax allowances. If she did no damage she should not be paying anything, not a sausage.
Your claim is 'my deposit was to cover damage to the property (or whatever the contract specified). I have caused no damage so expect my deposit to be returned within 7 days'.
Let them prove the supposed damage. If there isn't any, they won't be able to prove anything at all.0 -
Did I read the first post correctly?
The OP's sister lived at the property for 6 years and the LL wants to charge £1,100 for repainting......?
Is the property not well overdue for redecoration regardless of it being tenanted or owner occupied?0 -
Her case is entirely based on the fact she did not cause damage to the property. Deviations about tax allowances or whether quotes were reasonable muddy the waters. Your sister doesn't believe she should pay anything because she did not cause damage to anything nor leave it in a condition less than what she received the property in, minus fair wear and tear. Don't get too concerned with 'she didn't get the opportunity to get quotes' or tax allowances. If she did no damage she should not be paying anything, not a sausage.
Your claim is 'my deposit was to cover damage to the property (or whatever the contract specified). I have caused no damage so expect my deposit to be returned within 7 days'.
Let them prove the supposed damage. If there isn't any, they won't be able to prove anything at all.
Thank you very much for your posts, they've been very helpful.Enfieldian wrote: »Did I read the first post correctly?
The OP's sister lived at the property for 6 years and the LL wants to charge £1,100 for repainting......?
Is the property not well overdue for redecoration regardless of it being tenanted or owner occupied?
Yes, that's correct.
That's quite the point I had in mind. It just seems absurd for my sister to be expected to present the property back after 6 years with the exact pristine conditions of the walls and carpets. They may have had a small mark here and there but they were in extremely presentable condition. Having said that, the latter clause I quoted does make me think twice.
She will be taking matters to court btw so I will keep you posted on developments.0 -
It just seems absurd for my sister to be expected to present the property back after 6 years with the exact pristine conditions of the walls and carpets.
Per the law, she is not expected to do this - she's expected to return it with with nothing worse than 6 years of reasonable wear and tear.
That's why the LL has tax allowances etc for wear and tear.0
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