How can I stop Collies ankle biting ?

Crisp_£_note

Hi

We have a Lurcher cross Collie and he has developed a bad ankle biting behaviour after he has eaten his meals . Its more than a nip its a full bite, if we didnt have shoes or or sometimes at night when he has asked to go in the garden and we have got up out of bed we have to put socks on or it would make a mark or draw blood, the ferocity of it varies. He is 6 /7 years old and its got progressively worse over the past few months to a point I am frightened but try not to show it.

I am sure he knows its wrong but once he 'sees red' until he has made the outburst he cant help it!

Its almost a controling behaviour of his and I try not to show fear or anything as I know he can pick up on this tension. My hubby says its like the saying biting the hand that feeds you !

We have tried standing still, tuning our back, ignoring it, avoiding it, distracting it, diverting, shouting ouch and squeeling to show it hurt, making a noise by dropping or shaking something, feeding him separately, feeding him in silence, and in a quiet area, taking no notice and feeding him at the same time as our other dog (Greyhound cross) almost everything but nothing works and some things makes it worse !

He also has times when he just stand and stares at us then he starts to growl and eventualy it ends in an outburst of agression, usualy going for the ankles.

He eventualy gets put out where he takes it out on his football in the back garden and shakes it about for ages like he wants to play!

We are at our wits end with the behavious. We think it stems from the collie and sheep herding as he does this with our other dog and even us sometimes, but why has it suddenly started after all the years and what can we do to put a stop or control it ??

Anyone got any suggestions please ?

Thank you in advance.

Raksha

As it appears to be tied in to meal times, my first thoughts are what is he being fed?

sarabe

You have two dogs that have both developed a behaviour problem over the last few months. There must be a connection.

What has changed since the summer? Don't say the weather.

Dan_Gleebitz

Crisp_£_note wrote: »

Hi

We have a Lurcher cross Collie and he has developed a bad ankle biting behaviour after he has eaten his meals .

Anyone got any suggestions please ?

Thank you in advance.

Mrs Gleebitz says stop feeding him.
Dan

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Is he bored? Collies are so smart, they tend to go psycho when expected to sleep or plod around the house most of the day. How about him having a walk and game before dinner, so he is slightly tired before he eats - or even changing mealtimes for puzzle/snack time for a few days?

If you wore wellies and took him out for a walk the instant his meal was finished, could that distract him enough to forget about herding you?

Crisp_£_note

Raksha wrote: »

As it appears to be tied in to meal times, my first thoughts are what is he being fed?

They both get fed dry dog food (complete mix biscuits) which range from Tesco Value to more expensive varieties. The Collie is unable to have beef or anything with a hint of beef flavouring (whether real or artificial) as this will turn him agressive. So they usualy have chicken or turkey varieties. Sometimes they get scraps when we cut down the amount of biscuits they eat (or leave them out alltogether) on certain occasions we will feed them cooked pasta to keep them calm (eg fireworks, left alone for longer than normal in the evening, when weve had workmen round all day etc).

sarabe wrote: »

You have two dogs that have both developed a behaviour problem over the last few months. There must be a connection.

What has changed since the summer? Don't say the weather.

I will give this some more thought but have already been thinking hard about this and can't come up with anything obvious.

Dan_Gleebitz wrote: »

Mrs Gleebitz says stop feeding him.
Dan

:eek:

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Is he bored? Collies are so smart, they tend to go psycho when expected to sleep or plod around the house most of the day. How about him having a walk and game before dinner, so he is slightly tired before he eats - or even changing mealtimes for puzzle/snack time for a few days?

If you wore wellies and took him out for a walk the instant his meal was finished, could that distract him enough to forget about herding you?

I dont think he is bored he gets walked almost every day, we always play with him when he brings us a toy, often play ball in the back garden or let him out to play or run around the garden alone or with the other dog (supervised from the window).

I tried throwing his daily biscuits into the garden a few times and it just created a constant loop of him wanting to go out to find them even when he must have found most of them the first time after staying out for 15 minutes before wanting to come in.

As for the wellies I don't think this would work as its imediate after eating. The whole episode lasts only a few minutes as we try and put them out in the garden after eating.

I appreciate all your replies which are really helpful I am sure we will get to a solution before long with your help. Thank you everyone

sarabe

Crisp_£_note wrote: »

....
I dont think he is bored he gets walked almost every day....

Almost every day????

All dog need to get out for exercise at least twice a day. You might get away with once a day with some dogs but not collies, definately not collies or lurchers for that matter.

Apart from in the garden does he get to run off lead?

we always play with him when he brings us a toy,

You might want to consider that you keep the toy and invite him to play on your schedule. The ankle biting is him instigating a game.

What games do you play with him?

Eating makes us feel good and dogs often have a 'funny five minutes' after eating. A couple of mine go a bit nuts when they've eaten just with sheer pleasure. You just need to give him another outlet. Sounds as if the ankle biting has become a habit.

gemini12

You say you walk him almost every day. i am sorry but Collies are a working breed and as such have very high energy levels. Yes he needs playing with in the house but also needs to be walked every day proably at least twice a day. Our dogs have two short walks and a longer one every day Our collie is at least 9 and could be as old as 12 and would have more if he could.

I would suggest that you try to find a local behaviourist who can work with you to resolve this before someone is hurt.

Beckyy

Collies are natural herders. Nipping your ankles when you are slow taking him out sounds like herding to me.

Collies need A LOT of stimulation, both metal and physical, and should be getting multiple walks per day - we're talking hours of exercise, not a 10 minute trot around the block every other day. If they are not properly stimulated they can develop various behavioural problems.

I would also never touch Tesco Value dog food, foods like that are absolutely jammed with rubbish and won't help your pets behaviour at all.

Could you give us a rundown of your dog's typical day? How many times he is fed and when/where he is fed and who with/how much exercise he has/if he's left alone.

cheepskate_2

Crisp_£_note wrote: »

Hi

We have a Lurcher cross Collie and he has developed a bad ankle biting behaviour after he has eaten his meals .
or sometimes at night when he has asked to go in the garden and we have got up out of bed we have to put socks on or it would make a mark or draw blood,


Is it only after feeding, or is it other times as well. Got a bit confused to which one it is. It seemed like it was only after dinner but you say about letting him out at night and him doing it.

We have tried standing still, tuning our back, ignoring it, avoiding it, distracting it, diverting, shouting ouch and squeeling to show it hurt, making a noise by dropping or shaking something, feeding him separately, feeding him in silence, and in a quiet area, taking no notice and feeding him at the same time as our other dog (Greyhound cross) almost everything but nothing works and some things makes it worse !

He also has times when he just stand and stares at us then he starts to growl and eventualy it ends in an outburst of agression, usualy going for the ankles.

I wonder what came 1st. This behaviour or the other dogs whinning?

If this came 1st i wonder if the other dogs whinning is a "insecurity " behaviour. Difficult to know without knowing the personalities.

The other dog biting/attacking behaviour could leave the grey confused. Then add in all the things you have done to try and stop it. This could leave the grey confused and seeking re-assurance with its pack.


I would if as has been indicated by BOTH behaviours starting at the same time being linked it to something that has happened . Is there something that has changed or is 1 behaviour a symptom of the other maybe.

If the vet all clears them, I would def get the collie checked as certain illnesses can cause this erratic behaviour.
i would go for upping walks to at least 1 a day and bringing in mind toys to help keep them stimulated

Crisp_£_note

Thank you everyone for your replies.

The behaviour can happen at any time but is obviously more noticeable at mealtimes. He does like a bit of happy madness after eating and usualy goes into the back garden and shakes his football around vigerously for ages.

Last occurance was yesterday infact. Dog was lying by the front door (unfortunately the baby gate we usualy have part way up the hallway to prevent him lying infront of the front door wasnt in its place. We started using the baby gate to prevent him lying there / getting the post when it comes through the letterbox as it was becoming like a guarding / controling behaviour and the gate put a stop to that preventing him getting to his patch which solved the problem unless its not there as was this case ! ) and I needed to get out through the door to put some stuff in the recycle bin. I asked our dog to move and he grumbled at me so I asked again and he got up and started to go for me so I backed up against the wall into the corner (probably not the wisest move) to try and avoid the inevitable. I sternly told dog no! but it was ignored as usual. I ended up having to get my hubbys attention (which wasnt easy as he was at the back of the house and the kitchen door was closed, trying not to shout as this agitated the dog more) to help and he eventually diverted the dog by calling him to him, by which time it was a bit late as he had already grabbed my ankles twice. I must have been stood there between 2 and 5 minutes They even went for a walk and a long run during the day.

Sadly due to a disability I am unable to walk the dogs myself as they are too strong and would pull me over. Hubby is trying to take them out for a long walk 1 hr a day every day but this doesnt make any difference to either dogs behaviour. It does make them calmer though. The dogs dont get let off very often as the Greyhound will chase anything that moves (his first owners used him for 'rabbiting' and its another behaviour we cannot get rid of and the lurcher collie hates pops and bangs etc so anything can startle him and set him off running scared. We do try to take them somewhere they can be let off two or 3 times a week (easier in winter than summer). What we are looking for is an enclosed area maybe even a dedicated training area nearby.

Playtime often consists of tennis balls, or footballs in the back garden or tug toys and squeeky toy fun indoors or hide and seek either in person or with toys. We were considering trying some puzzle games based on treats (eg hiding a biscuit under one of several tumblers and getting dog to find it / choose the right tumbler. He is good at this when it is in one hand. But as its food related we stopped doing this for the time being as are worried it will reinforce the wrong demanding behaviours.

I will look at finding a better food for them but it all comes down to the budget which is already tight and just getting tighter with all the recent changes.

Thank you for the helpful replies they are helping us to try and look into it a bit more with areas we missed thinking about.