Credit card fraud

Anna1t

17th of this month £300 was taking at my account at 11:45 and then at 00.10 on the 18th of this month £100 was taking out. This was done at a cash point in my town useing my pin. I did not do this and did not give permission for any one eles to do this. I still have the card altho its now been canceled. Am I liabel for this as my pin number was used? There is ment to be CCTV from the cashpoint I am just waiting on it.

VictimOfImpersonation

Unlikely you will be liable for it. Simply complete the disputed transaction/fraud form that the card company send you and the quicker you get it back (some allow by fax) then the quicker the amounts will be refunded.

It is possible that you have been subject to some kind of postal intercept that works like this:

1. Fraudsters find out some of your personal data from somewhere e.g. bent bank-workers sell it on the street eg. full name and address and mothers maiden name dob etc.

2. Fraudsters may be able to obtain a Credit Reference Agency (CRA) report online for you whilst pretending to be you. (Yes, it happened to me earler this year). If so they obtain further information and a list they can use as an aide memoire.

3. They call credit card issuer lost and stolen lines pretending to be you saying "I lost my wallet - please cancel my cards".

4. Lost and stolen people are most helpful - "Don't worry, we'll cancel your card and send out a new one - would you like a PIN reminder or new PIN too?"

5. Fraudsters intercept new cards and PINs in post (bent postmen/sorting office workers or your postbox is vulnerable to dipping) and start spending within the week.

6. Fraudsters may even set up new online access to your accounts daring to use their own email address and mobile numbers.

7. Police will NOT investigate. You are NOT the victim (yeah right...) The bank is the victim and they decide if an investigation is necessary (it never is in their mind).

Check all your credit cards if you have others and contact those issuers also to set up additional security. Bank accounts are slightly less vulnerable (credit card fraud is easier).

A variation on the postal intercept is that via the same or a further bare-faced phone call or online request the fraudsters manage to change your card address to an address they know they can intercept more easily.

Be careful out there!

chattychappy

Legally you are not liable and this is also given in the Lending Code (might not stop them trying though.) Theoretically the bank might have a claim on you if you'd been negligent.

I nipped a similar attempt in the bud. Got a call from someone claiming to be from the Nationwide. Saying they were sending out a replacement card to me (indeed my current one was about to expire) and wanting to check details with me. He had my address and then wanted to ask me some security questions.

Of course as he was in the "fraud department" I couldn't call him back on the main number, blah blah blah.

I called Nationwide - they couldn't even confirm whether they'd sent out the new one yet, only that it might have been and if not would be soon. They said it was up to me if I stopped it but that if I requested too many replacements I would be charged. Suggested I might want to change the PIN (yeah right, already to be intercepted again). I said "no" to a new PIN, but "yes" to another card being sent. It arrived within the week.

I never got the first card - it seems it was intercepted and the caller was trying to get the necessary info so he could phone up the Nationwide and get the address changed/PIN advised.

NW don't seem to be geared up to prevent this kind of fraud - especially when it comes to training call centre staff.

INT1

If the Chip on the front of the card was read, you may well be liable for it, this being the transactions went through on the card originally issued to you and you were using.

If it's anything else, you should be ok.

VictimOfImpersonation

INT1 - exactly what are you on about? I have carefully explained how thousands of replacement cards and PINs are issued far too easily every year to fraudsters and how the bank is the official victim not the cardholder. Why have you changed your tune since you posted this ?

Anna1t

Thank you for your replys. I am stil very worried I will get the bill for this. I have had the same card now for a year so know new one has been sent out that i know of. I have had my capitalone account for two and a half years now and never had any problems before. I just hope there is cctv of it.

INT1

VictimOfImpersonation wrote: »

INT1 - exactly what are you on about? I have carefully explained how thousands of replacement cards and PINs are issued far too easily every year to fraudsters and how the bank is the official victim not the cardholder. Why have you changed your tune since you posted this ?

That was a stolen card question. The OP didn't mention if the card was still in their posession or not.

chattychappy

MissDelilah wrote: »

In regards to your 4th para - how on earth can Nationwide not be sure if they've sent out your new card or not?! My bank always know when mine go out - they're invariably tracked IIRC.

Yep, seemed odd to me. They said there was a "window" when it would be dispatched. I suppose they are produced in batches or they feel it would be a security risk if the precise time these things were sent out was known to call centre OPs, I have no idea.

MissDelilah wrote: »

As to "requesting too many replacements you'll be charged" - well whose fault is it that THEIR Card that was sent out was intercepted by the postman? that fault must lie between bank/CC company and postal service.

Yep, wasn't going to argue it though. I think you get 3 "free" replacements or something a year. In >20 years with them I've never lost a card so didn't bother to battle a hypothetical. My main concern was the call centre OP. She had a button she could push for "lost card" and it was "up to me" whether she pushed it. Given the story she should have cancelled it anyway rather than incentivising someone not to cancel.

MissDelilah wrote: »

I remember when banks were really strict and you had to sign for it as registered post ie when new card was sent out. Somewhere along the line this translated into "post the card even though it's recorded delivery through the post box".

I think for registered (is it called "special" now?) the recipient is supposed to sign and it gets special handling. With recorded, it is OK for the postman to sign to say he has delivered. Sometimes they do knock and get a sig, particularly if they have to knock anyway because its a parcel. As you say, often they deliver and that's the end of it. No record.

Given I'd reported a fraud attempt, NW really should have sent out the replacement a different way or required me to collect at the branch (which I would have been happy to do). As it is, this event was probably recorded as nothing more than a careless customer losing a card.

dzug1

MissDelilah wrote: »

According to Wiki (but a bit hard to find on Royal Mail website) the recipient must sign for SD item. On RM website it appears anyone can sign for it.

.

Anyone who answers the door can sign for SD or recorded - it is not 'guaranteed' to reach a particular person, just an address.

Wiki is just using loose terminology

chattychappy

MissDelilah wrote: »

Just to let you know - there is no registered post but there is recorded delivery. Apparently you're not supposed to send valuable items this way so CC etc shouldn't go this way but also a signature is required but NOT from the recipient (so could leave item potentially open to fraud).

I remember now, registered is what has now been rebranded to special, not that it matters. You're right - its for valuable stuff. Recorded gets no special handling except the delivery confirmation.

I remember a post office bloke telling me that something registered (as it was then) was more likely to get stolen than normal post as it was obvious that there was something of value inside. Difference being there would be compensation. (Though not sure if it would apply to a CC which is not of intrinsic high value - it's all consequential.)

MissDelilah wrote: »

Just out of interest - I work for a solicitors office and we use recorded delivery to send letters to Home Office, legal documents etc - and presumably anything that applies to SD we send that way.

Ha ha ha... you should be on DX then..

You might be interested in this case Adams v Lindsell (1818) B & Ald 681 - it's almost as if the courts want to believe the postal service is perfect.

custardy

MissDelilah wrote: »

OK - so what happens if a shared house/flat and some fraudulent person signs for it?

Am I missing a very serious fraud point here or what?!

RMs requirement is to deliver to addresses.not people
how many times have you been asked for ID to sign for an item?
if you have issues with your address then its up to you to sort out an option
keepsafe,redirect or mail collect