PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Pipe burst in property, due to T not having heating on. Thoughts please.

Options
1235

Comments

  • MissMoneypenny
    MissMoneypenny Posts: 5,324 Forumite
    edited 30 December 2010 at 9:10PM
    tbs624 wrote: »
    LLs should also seek to protect their properties by sending their Ts a standard letter reminding them that turning the heating off and leaving the property empty is likely to result in a burst pipe, with resultant costs.

    I had my heating on all day until midnight and still got a frozen pipe overnight! And I didn't have any water standing in my kettle for my morning coffee:( It has been the coldest winter for decades. I have never had a frozen pipe before...and I have lived up north.:)

    I think the OP is a great landlord. If there were more landlords like them, the country wouldn't need all these renting laws (with still more laws needed). It's so nice to hear from a good landlord.

    Has the tenant asked for a reduction in rent? As he was honest enough to admit to not having the heating on, he may just be pleased he has a landlord who is going to pay to fix it all.
    RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
    Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.


  • theartfullodger
    theartfullodger Posts: 15,697 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 30 December 2010 at 9:26PM
    The great Lord Denning noted in Warren v Keen in 1954 (maybe 1953...) ...

    see..
    http://www.letlink.co.uk/case-law/disrepair/warren-v-keen-1954.html

    'What does "to use the premises in a tenant-like manner" mean ? ..The tenant must take proper care of the place. He must, if he is going away for the winter, turn off the water and empty the boiler. He must clean the chimneys, when necessary and also the windows.He must mend the electric light when it fuses. He must unstop the sink when it is blocked by his waste. In short, he must do those little jobs about the place which a reasonable tenant would do. In addition, he must, of course, not damage the house wilfully or negligently; and he must see that his family and guests do not damage it; and if they do, he must repair it. But apart from such things, if the house falls out of repair owing to fair wear and tear, lapse of time or for any reason not caused by him, then he will not be liable to repair it.'
    Refer tenant to that. Get it fixed, send bill to Tenant and claim on your insurance. If and when Tenant pays repay the insurance company. Issue S21 & find better tenant.

    Next?
  • MissMoneypenny
    MissMoneypenny Posts: 5,324 Forumite
    edited 30 December 2010 at 9:35PM
    theartfullodger wrote: »
    The great Lord Denning noted in Warren v Keen in 1954 (maybe 1953...) ...

    see..
    http://www.letlink.co.uk/case-law/disrepair/warren-v-keen-1954.html


    Perhaps, in 1954 when that ruling was made, they knew how to drain a boiler? Did boilers even supply central heating in those days as most houses didn't have any central heating then? Plus the tenant didn't "go away for the winter", he was away over Christmas.

    If you want a tenant to drain the boiler artful, then you had better just advertise for a tenant who is a plumber, perhaps?

    The OP has already shown he is one of the good landlords and has said he will pay for it.
    RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
    Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.


  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    theartfullodger wrote: »
    The great Lord Denning noted in Warren v Keen in 1954 (maybe 1953...) ...

    see..
    http://www.letlink.co.uk/case-law/disrepair/warren-v-keen-1954.html


    Refer tenant to that. Get it fixed, send bill to Tenant and claim on your insurance. If and when Tenant pays repay the insurance company. Issue S21 & find better tenant.

    Next?

    THANK YOU ARTFUL! What happy memories. The 'great' Lord Denning indeed! There's been no one since (though some of his rulings were pretty contraversial!)

    But of course that was 1953........ Like the English language, the law is a living being, it grows, it develops, it changes...
  • JPS29
    JPS29 Posts: 1,607 Forumite
    theartfullodger wrote: »
    Refer tenant to that. Get it fixed, send bill to Tenant and claim on your insurance. If and when Tenant pays repay the insurance company. Issue S21 & find better tenant.

    Next?

    Next................

    Advertise an empty property, wait a few months for a new tenant and then how do I know they will be reliable. That law is years old.

    Would I/you/anyone want the tenant draining the boiler? DEFINITELY NOT.

    Next...... Artfullodger puts down the bottle and gets real
  • clutton_2
    clutton_2 Posts: 11,149 Forumite
    i stopped reading artful ages ago.....
  • tbs624
    tbs624 Posts: 10,816 Forumite
    edited 31 December 2010 at 3:57PM
    theartfullodger wrote: »
    The great Lord Denning noted in Warren v Keen in 1954 (maybe 1953...) ...
    1954 was the date of the Appeal Case:)

    Following on from G_M's comment,
    But of course that was 1953........ Like the English language, the law is a living being, it grows, it develops, it changes..
    on a wider note, Denning's interpretation of the phrase "tenant like behaviour" ( from an earlier 1920's case (Marsden v Heyes ) includes the statement that Ts should be responsible for cleaning the chimneys. Today many chimneys serve as the flue to a "living flame " gas fire and such flues come under LL's gas safety obligations.......
    theartfullodger wrote: »
    Refer tenant to that. Get it fixed, send bill to Tenant and claim on your insurance. If and when Tenant pays repay the insurance company. Issue S21 & find better tenant.
    Artful - you're right that T failed to act ( see also LLTA85, S11 (2)(a) ) but note that the OP says that this property is not an area that seems to attract a surfeit of "top" Ts. As you know, issuing a S21 doesn't mean T leaves exactly when LL would like.

    OP has also already confirmed that T has otherwise been a "good" T - there is no guarantee that a replacement T would not cause a similar (or indeed other) issue.

    OP seems pretty clued up about the fact that he *could* look to the insurance company/T to cover the costs but has chosen to deal with it all in a way that best suits him and his T.

    T on a very low income would in all probability be petrified of being landed with a bill due to his omission and, having now had a graphic demo of what can happen with burst pipes, is more than likely to take greater care in the future.
  • tbs624
    tbs624 Posts: 10,816 Forumite
    clutton wrote: »
    i stopped reading artful ages ago.....
    That's a shame because the majority of his posts tend to be both helpful and knowledgeable, sometimes with a bit of humour thrown in for good measure. :)
  • MissMoneypenny
    MissMoneypenny Posts: 5,324 Forumite
    tbs624 wrote: »
    That's a shame because the majority of his posts tend to be both helpful and knowledgeable, sometimes with a bit of humour thrown in for good measure. :)

    I like his posts too.
    RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
    Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.


  • PasturesNew
    PasturesNew Posts: 70,698 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    MissMoneypenny wrote: »
    I like his posts too.
    And me... although I tend to skimp over the factual ones and 'thank' the humorous ones.
This discussion has been closed.
★ ★ ★ Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.6K Spending & Discounts
  • 244K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598.8K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.9K Life & Family
  • 257.2K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.
Update Your Picture