Will the fast stooze return?

is_the_kettle_on

(sorry this thread should be in the stooze area)

Hello all. I have a question for your consideration.
Will the fast stooze (money in high interests savings being shuffled around via 0% balance transfer deals) one day make a comeback?

Sure at the moment most believe it's not really worth the effort for the return (given the balance transfer fees compared to interest return)

I did a little amateur stoozing a few years ago but I have gradually paid off all the balances due to 0% balance transfer fees drying up (and getting a lower rate of interest on savings)

It has occured to me that for an amateur to quickly run up a money debt (ooh say 10-20k) to stooze with can be tricky so paying off all my money debt may put me at a disadvantage if 0% deals were to one day return.



I suppose this is how I see one possibility...

1. Build up or maintain a credit card money debt
2. Continue to move debt around avoiding interest payments
3. Pay transfer fees (when unavoidable) but do this only because interest on the savings will effectively cover the BT fees. So stooze for Zero return.
4. Re-enter the market in a few years with a nice fat money debt when (if) 0% balance transfers (and higher interest rates) return

It's like I am happy to have 20k floating around in debt if it's not actually costing me money. But paying all this off means if the 0% BT fees return I have to frantically try to create money debt. Which is not that easy for a simple guy.

Of course if there is something else I have not considered do feel free to point this out.

Consumerist

I think stoozing is going to more difficult in the future, anyway, because credit files now contain some of the intimate details of how you conduct your accounts. It will now be pretty obvious from your file if you are stoozing and banks may be less willing to take you on if they suspect your intentions.

is_the_kettle_on

opinions4u wrote: »

Given the Credit Crunch has signficantly reduced the amount of money that banks have to lend, I doubt the return of 0% fee free balance transfer deals will be seen any time soon.

As interest rates rise, there may be cases where paying 3% for a year at 0% does become worth the effort again, but we're not close to that yet.

OK, but then this becomes an issue of waiting for margins to return to profitable levels, which is my point. If I have a full stooze pot and interest rates go up I'm ready to take advantage of new deals.
But until then, IS there a downside to sitting 'long term' on a stooze pot that nets a return of $0.00?

YorkshireBoy

is_the_kettle_on wrote: »

OK, but then this becomes an issue of waiting for margins to return to profitable levels, which is my point. If I have a full stooze pot and interest rates go up I'm ready to take advantage of new deals.

How?

If you're up to the hilt in debt, ie available credit in excess of your income and using most of it, how are you going to get any more cards? It isn't going to happen!

At £38K, my stooz pot is not a million miles away from my salary. I'm stuck here now until I've repaid a couple of cards in February and waited for them to be shown as settled with the CRAs (some time in April).

But until then, IS there a downside to sitting 'long term' on a stooze pot that nets a return of $0.00?

I don't work for nothing in my day job, so I'm not going to do it with my 'hobby'!

is_the_kettle_on

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

How?

If you're up to the hilt in debt, ie available credit in excess of your income and using most of it, how are you going to get any more cards? It isn't going to happen!

Am I up to the hilt? Not sure I said anything to that effect...but if that's your concern call the stooze pot 10k.

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

I don't work for nothing in my day job, so I'm not going to do it with my 'hobby'!

1. Hobbies should be for fun, or perhaps to provide a distraction, if you do it just for the money Yorkshireboy then it's not a hobby it's a j.o.b!
2. I see it as delayed gratification, I am prepared to get nothing in the short term IF it means when savings interest goes up I can just slide 20k into an account without having to try to re-build a stooze pot from scratch (or is this not that hard?)

This is about keeping a stooze pot in standby, I was suggesting maintaining a stooze pot for when/if the margins improve. After taking time to build my original stooze pot I'm worried trying to build one up again from scratch in 2012 (for example) with piddly little credit offers of 2k here and 3k there is more work that maintaining what I have now for the next 12 months.

pauljoecoe

I am pretty much maintaining a £15K O% loan by using O% purchase offers. I seem to have been able to move from one to another almost immediately for the last few years with the help of Tesco, sainsburys and mainly MBNA. MBNA seem to make a new offer as soon as you have paid the last one of!

YorkshireBoy

is_the_kettle_on wrote: »

Am I up to the hilt? Not sure I said anything to that effect

The bit I quoted was your "full stooze pot". What else could that mean but you're maxed out? Perhaps you should be clearer in your terminology?

...but if that's your concern call the stooze pot 10k.

Should be lots of room for manoeuvre there then.

Hobbies should be for fun, or perhaps to provide a distraction, if you do it just for the money Yorkshireboy then it's not a hobby it's a j.o.b!

It's a cost/benefit thing, along with a bit of fun. I do it simply because I can. It doesn't make/save me a lot these days, maybe £800 to £1K a year...not like the heady heights of £70-80K stooz pots and £3K per annum income it was a few years ago.

I see it as delayed gratification, I am prepared to get nothing in the short term IF it means when savings interest goes up I can just slide 20k into an account without having to try to re-build a stooze pot from scratch (or is this not that hard?)

In all honesty? I think it's complete madness, but each to their own!

is_the_kettle_on

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

The bit I quoted was your "full stooze pot". What else could that mean but you're maxed out? Perhaps you should be clearer in your terminology?

Yes, the hyperthetical nature of my suggestion and my 'wet behind the ears-ness' has robbed us of clarity, apologies.

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

I think it's complete madness, but each to their own!

Now it's your turn to be clearer...why, why is it madness? Thats the answer I can't seem to get.

Maybe I should put it another way.

What would be easier for a not-very experienced person...

1. Try to hurridly build a brand new 20k stooze pot as soon as better savings deal emerge
2. Take one or two maintenance steps to retain current stooze pot until better savings deals emerge

If 'A' savings bank comes out with an 8% interest offer in 12 months time (this is an example) and my stooze pot is empty I have lots of work to do before I can get in on the action, but if I have hung on to my stooze pot I slip in the cash and earn myself 50 quid per month right from the get-go.

thenudeone

It is difficult (but not impossible) to make a profit (albeit very small) these days, but it depends on your circumstances.

Stoozing is still worthwhile for
- Anyone with an offset mortgage charging more than 3% interest
- Anyone who can put the cash retained into a Cash ISA (where getting 3% isn't too difficult)
- Anyone who would need to withdraw money from Cash ISAs to pay off the balances. By doing so, the tax free status of those savings is lost forever and can never be replaced.

One day interest rates will rise and stoozing will probably become significantly profitable again.

As long as its not costing me, I'm prepared to leave funds in my ISAs and stooze as much as I can.

is_the_kettle_on

thenudeone wrote: »

...Stoozing is still worthwhile for
- Anyone with an offset mortgage charging more than 3% interest
- Anyone who can put the cash retained into a Cash ISA (where getting 3% isn't too difficult)....

....One day interest rates will rise and stoozing will probably become significantly profitable again...

And this O nudeone is the real question at the centre of this thread.

How long would you sustain a near-zero profit stooze pot while you waited for significant profits to return? A year, two, how about 3?

thenudeone

I would certainly keep it going for 3 years if necessary.
Anyone who used all the TESSA and Cash ISA allowances since they were first introduced should have well over £50k now.
It is possible to have that amount owing on credit cards at 0% if you have a high enough income and excellent credit record.
Even with today's interest rates it is possible to get 3-3½% interest on a cash ISA. When interest rates start to rise by a % or two, it shouldn't be too hard to get 5% (3 years ago I was getting 6½%). That gives a 2% tax free profit after allowing 3% for the balance transfer fees, i.e. £1k pa.
If the ISAs were all cashed in now, to clear the balances, whilst you waited (years?) for interest rates to rise, then even after the rates rise, it wouldn't be worth doing for any more than you could in a new ISA, because of the tax and the lower interest rates offered on non-ISA accounts.
Just my view on the matter.