Save, don't borrow.

Derivative

Degenerate wrote: »

My only reaction to that is that it sounds like the musings of someone who has never actually been on the breadline, and so cannot really appreciate the pressures that lead people into the debt trap.

To take out a loan may be a choice, but a how much of a foolish choice depends what the other options were at the time.

Give it a rest will you. I'm from a single parent family that's lived on JSA for significant amounts of time. Unless you're homeless or already in significant amounts of debt, there's a way.

"You've never been in the situation"... isn't a sound argument. It's something of a last resort.

lvader

I'm sure it's pointing out the bleeding obvious but if you can't afford to live debt free then you certainly can't afford it loaded with debt.

JuicyJesus

lvader wrote: »

I'm sure it's pointing out the bleeding obvious but if you can't afford to live debt free then you certainly can't afford it loaded with debt.

Another way to put it is that if you've come to the end of your pay two weeks before payday and you take out a payday loan to cover it, you haven't solved the problem, you've just delayed solving it another month and at the same time making it worse.

And frankly I am sick to the back teeth of seeing people whinge that because they don't have much money they need to borrow it. No, you don't, you need to find ways to live within your means. For instance, cutting down on luxuries - which many people just aren't willing to do.

Derivative

JuicyJesus wrote: »

And frankly I am sick to the back teeth of seeing people whinge that because they don't have much money they need to borrow it. No, you don't, you need to find ways to live within your means. For instance, cutting down on luxuries - which many people just aren't willing to do.

Indeed.
I'd call it an addiction to luxury, along the same lines of smoking, diets, gambling and so on - once you admit the problem (and most of us have been there at some point) it's easy to fix. Surprising how many things you don't miss when they're gone.

Degenerate

missile wrote: »

My grandma never had a fridge. :A

If you posted how can I live without money to buy the food :T

I was trying to suggest a realistic scenario. We have a minimum wage and benefit system in this country that should mean everyone has adequate income to pay for food. Where people on low incomes tend to struggle is when they are hit by unexpected large outlays like replacing broken appliances. That's when some end up resorting to things like payday loans. To suggest that it's all down to to poor judgement is rather debateable when their alternative may have been to go without refrigerated food or heating etc

.

EdgEy wrote: »

Give it a rest will you. I'm from a single parent family that's lived on JSA for significant amounts of time. Unless you're homeless or already in significant amounts of debt, there's a way.

So, for example, what would your solution to a broken boiler have been?

"You've never been in the situation"... isn't a sound argument. It's something of a last resort.

It wasn't an argument, it was an observation.

Derivative

Degenerate wrote: »

So, for example, what would your solution to a broken boiler have been?

I don't think I can answer a question like that. "My" solution would be to use my rainy day fund for it. We'll try.

Live without it for a while, save up and pay it off?
"Back in my day (late 90s)" when I was a young child my Grandmother had no heating besides a small electric pseudo log fire in the lounge.
She got by just fine and we stayed over many nights. Yorkshire's hardly the sunshine state in winter either. It'd be a bloody struggle this year I'll grant you, but these crazy winters are unusual.

Kettle will sort you out for general washing. Undignified? Perhaps, but I prefer that solution to being a few grand in the hole.

I'll give you that I don't have adult experience of the situation you describe, but I'm pretty sure if a ten year old kid can brave it for the betterment of the family, you can suck it up and deal.

I just can't envisage this situation in which a rational person doesn't have 2k to spend on a boiler. You've basically picked the most expensive realistic failure that could happen, and it's not that bad.

An oven or the washing machine going might leave you in more trouble, luckily they're a lot cheaper to replace. As an aside, JSA do have hardship grants available for stuff like this - only £300 or so if I recall, but they do exist.

Edit: and the "poor judgement" thing... the poor judgement is not saving during the 'good times'. Or are we talking lifetime jobseekers here?

costaerer

As someone who is in debt and lives beyond my means I totally agree with you. I'm in debt cos I'm a greedy guts. When I was 18 and earning £800pm and had zero bills I still took out all the credit cards I could. The only positive is I'm ONLY just 22 and have learnt from my mistakes so hopefull at 40...50...60 I won't be in debt and will have savings!

Degenerate

EdgEy wrote: »

"Back in my day (late 90s)" when I was a young child my Grandmother had no heating besides a small electric pseudo log fire in the lounge.

The sort that are very expensive to run.

She got by just fine and we stayed over many nights. Yorkshire's hardly the sunshine state in winter either. It'd be a bloody struggle this year I'll grant you, but these crazy winters are unusual.

We've had plenty of cold winters. People just forgot they could happen because we didn't have any for a decade or two.

Kettle will sort you out for general washing. Undignified? Perhaps, but I prefer that solution to being a few grand in the hole.

Good for you. You could also economise by clothing your children in sackcloth and feeding them gruel and stale bread. Given the choice, others may choose debt to maintain a basic standard of living, in the hope that they will be able to pay it off eventually.

I'll give you that I don't have adult experience of the situation you describe, but I'm pretty sure if a ten year old kid can brave it for the betterment of the family, you can suck it up and deal.

Why are you trying to make this about me? I have a high income and no debt. I'm just not a person who likes to make sanctimonious judgements about others without appreciating the situations that can arise.

I just can't envisage this situation in which a rational person doesn't have 2k to spend on a boiler.

Then frankly you don't live in the real world.

An oven or the washing machine going might leave you in more trouble, luckily they're a lot cheaper to replace. As an aside, JSA do have hardship grants available for stuff like this - only £300 or so if I recall, but they do exist.

I believe you are referring to the social fund, and it makes loans, not grants.

opinions4u

So, for example, what would your solution to a broken boiler have been?

Ring the landlord.

If I own a boiler, I have a responsibility to myself and my family to plan for important things needing to be repaired or replaced. If I rent, it's no different, but at least I don't (directly) have to cover the cost of some things.

others may choose debt to maintain a basic standard of living, in the hope that they will be able to pay it off eventually.

Hope is pointless unless you can identify a known change in circumstances that will give you the chance to pay the debt off. If you're income is not enough to pay for something now, there will be even less to pay for stuff with later once you've loaded interest on to it.

Malory

missile wrote: »

My grandma never had a fridge. :A

Does this mean that your grandma had time to shop for fresh food several times a week because she was able to stay home while your granddad went to work and earned enough money to support his whole family?

Today, being a housewife or a SAHM is a luxury.

My husband and I both have to work (more than) full time. Until we can afford a maid or to dine out every day, we need a fridge.

I think this thread started being too simplistic.

First of all, it is true that some people go into debt because they spend money on things they don't need. There are also people who use credit cards to pay for essentials. Sometimes because they couldn't be bothered to save for essentials. Sometimes because their incomes were so low that they couldn't save.

When we become adults and get our first jobs, the money we start out with before we get paid for the first time is often the money we get from our parents. We all have different parents and different circumstances. When some young people get their first jobs, they have the choice of spending their earnings on luxuries or saving it, because they are living at home with their parents and don't have to pay bills (or only pay a small percentage of bills). When other young people get their first jobs, their earnings go toward helping their families pay their bills. (I've known people who have fit in both camps.) When these two groups of people turn 30, their financial situations are going to be very different, even if both groups try to save as much as they can.

There is also the issue of investment - which hasn't been addressed. I don't mean investing in shares; I mean spending more than you normally would because your purchases has the potential of creating an exceptional benefit in the long run. That might mean, for example, purchasing a well-made suit and having it dry cleaned to increase your chance of success at a job interview. (For those of you who suggest charity shops, the time spent rummaging through charity shops to find something that fits and looks halfway decent could be spent preparing for your interview.)

In the case of the fridge above - if I had to work less hours so I could shop more often so we didn't need a fridge, my family's income would be significantly lower. Better to spend the money on a fridge that works well and doesn't break down very often.

The whole point of this is that it's a lot more complicated than just "Save. Don't spend."