What do you do when you run out of cards?

NickX

Meadows wrote: »

Stop spending!!!!!

Why do you say "Stop Spending" ?

danothy

NickX wrote: »

Stoozing is never about earning interest on your normal income. It is about earning interest on the Credit Card Provider's funds.

According to this very site it is: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cards/stooze-cash-credit-cards#simply, if you can't get a free or very cheap cash advance then your only choice is to hold your own income as savings and spend the 0% credit on what you would have spent anyway.

NickX wrote: »

Just because there is a Balance Transfer Fee doesn't immediately make a stooze unprofitable. You need to do the maths and decide if you deem it worthwhile.

I agree, but with BT fees being in the 3% area and the best easy access savings being about the same before tax at the moment one transfer could easily wipe out a years work so I was generalising somewhat for the current situation.

NickX

danothy wrote: »

According to this very site it is: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cards/stooze-cash-credit-cards#simply, if you can't get a free or very cheap cash advance then your only choice is to hold your own income as savings and spend the 0% credit on what you would have spent anyway.

Your missing the point here. By spending on the 0% card and not spending your own funds, you then move an equivalent sum to your interest-bearing stoozepot. Those funds are effectively the Card Provider's funds because if you hadn't used the card you wouldn't have them.

Just because the funds didn't come directly from the Card Provider by way of Super Balance Transfer doesn't really matter. You are spending the Card Provider's funds to maximize your savings. This in turn means your savings are artificially boosted by the amount that you have borrowed from the Card Provider. The end result is the same. You are saving and hopefully making a profit on funds generated from the Card Provider.

NickX

danothy wrote: »

with BT fees being in the 3% area and the best easy access savings being about the same before tax at the moment one transfer could easily wipe out a years work so I was generalising somewhat for the current situation.

Lateral thinking is required in difficult circumstances. I have never paid a fee greater than 2% and I have never invested the funds at less than 3%. It might not be easy, but for the committed there are still profits to be made.

danothy

NickX wrote: »

Your missing the point here. By spending on the 0% card and not spending your own funds, you then move an equivalent sum to your interest-bearing stoozepot. Those funds are effectively the Card Provider's funds because if you hadn't used the card you wouldn't have them.

Just because the funds didn't come directly from the Card Provider by way of Super Balance Transfer doesn't really matter. You are spending the Card Provider's funds to maximize your savings. This in turn means your savings are artificially boosted by the amount that you have borrowed from the Card Provider. The end result is the same. You are saving and hopefully making a profit on funds generated from the Card Provider.

I think you're quibbling over semantics there to be honest, and either way if you are operating this way my point about not maximising the debt still stands as you can keep any of the surplus you didn't spend, so it still comes down to offsetting the spending, in contrast a SBT all has to go back at the end so you might as well take the maximum as it was never truly yours in the first place.

Good job on the low transfer fees and high interest savings, if it can still be profitable good luck to you. Personally I am too risk averse to start trimming the margins like that. When you factor in fees with tax on the interest earned and the fact that you have to lock your savings away for a number of years to earn higher interest (potentially causing a problem if the 0% credit dries up in the mean time) it all becomes a bit of a burden in comparison to the profit you get. But that's just me, I'm happier with the short game.

Nine_Lives

Thanks to all for help & thanks to Nick for understanding where i'm coming from.

Meadows wrote: »

Stop spending!!!!!

Why?

I have spent NO more than i would've done had i not had a C/C. Is this not the whole point of stoozing? Spend what you would usually ....... but on your C/C, but don't spend any more than this.

I haven't spent ANY more than i would've done usually. Isn't this the whole point of stoozing with this method?

The reason i maxed out 2.25k since July already is because i built a PC which cost me in the region of £1200, but i was ALWAYS going to build that PC & it was ALWAYS going to cost in the region of £1200.

Key to this, which appears to have been largely overlooked, is that i CAN afford to pay this off. Today if i so wished. I'm sure i've already stated this. I'm not going to re-read what i've said, so if i've said it already, then my question is why is this being ignored?

I'm also only just starting out. Maybe this is why my limits are "low". Maybe, maybe not. Maybe 2.25k isn't considered "low". My second card has a limit of 2.8k but perhaps this is irrelevant.

My gf who has past history (i don't) has had a higher limit than i have, even though she got in to credit card debt before she met me.

That's another key thing - i don't get into "debt" as such. If i don't have it, i don't spend it.

So why bother with unhelpful replies such as "stop spending" ? I really can't see how that is productive input.

YorkshireBoy

K_P83 wrote: »

I haven't spent ANY more than i would've done usually. Isn't this the whole point of stoozing with this method?

Yes it is. However, some people just think all debt is bad debt!

danothy

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

Yes it is. However, some people just think all debt is bad debt!

Also, this appears on the main forum page under 'Credit Cards' as Stoozing is a sub-board and people click on it, read "need more cards, have maxed out" and don't realise it's managed so start with the standard party lines.

K_P83 wrote: »

So why bother with unhelpful replies such as "stop spending" ? I really can't see how that is productive input.

I can only hope I haven't been too unhelpful, I acknowledge that I'm quite risk averse but I do get the point of stoozing. I only pitched in with the "no next step when you run out of cards" as I've seen people on these boards that have trouble accepting that it's not an activity that can be carried on indefinitely (see https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2758582 for example, BTW no offence intended VV, I think it's a good read. It inspired a fair bit of debate and is another example of people being debt averse ubiquitously).

NickX

danothy wrote: »

Also, this appears on the main foru page under 'Credit Cards' as Stoozing is a sub-board and people click on it, read "need more cards, have maxed out" and don't realise it's managed so start with the standard party lines.

Agreed, a lot of people struggle to get to grips with the ins and outs of stoozing. When I tell some of my mates in the pub about my multiple credit card debts and available credit of nearly twice my income, they look in horror. There is the miss-conception that Credit Cards are evil and carrying Credit Card debt is even worse. When I try to explain the debt is offset with interest bearing investments their eyes start to glaze over with the "yeah right" kind of look.

danothy wrote: »

I only pitched in with the "no next step when you run out of cards" as I've seen people on these boards that have trouble accepting that it's not an activity that can be carried on indefinitely (see https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2758582 for example, BTW no offence intended VV, I think it's a good read. It inspired a fair bit of debate and is another example of people being debt averse ubiquitously).

Thanks for the link, I just read through it. For what its worth I think the principle that VanillaVanilla is attempting to achieve is good stoozing. He wants as much interest free credit as possible, so as to maximize his stoozepot and maximize his profit. I am the same.

Agreed, some of his ideas on declaring income are suspect. As a self employed stoozer myself, I would say there can be some flexibility in income declaration, but you need to ensure that you can justify whatever figure you declare if they come back to you. You may be able to use previous years accounts, but bear in mind you can add in all income which includes profits from part-time selling on eBay or elsewhere, and includes income from investments inclusive of your stoozing profits. VanilliaVanilla is just a bit young and headstrong but he is going along the right lines and could do well. Some the the replies are highly judgemental and show a lack of understanding of what he is trying to achieve.

Merry Christmas :beer:

Nine_Lives

danothy, my last post was in no way directed towards you.

I do think credit cards get a bad name - simply by people who aren't responsible enough to manage them properly.

I've tried to explain stoozing to others, but when you mention credit cards, they begin to have a nervous breakdown & start foaming at the mouth talking about debt & start to termble violently.

I appreciate that this is the internet & as such none of you know me, therefore you don't know how responsible or irresponsible i am.

For the record, i'm not an idiot. I am switched on. If i don't have it, i don't spend it, it's not difficult in my eyes.

To me it's a no brainer. If you spend what you don't have then you're in trouble. I don't know what's so difficult to understand about that. Yet people up and down the country max out their credit cards because IMO (disagree if you must), but in MY eyes, they're either uneducated or irresponsible. They shouldn't be allowed them pure & simple.

My gf was one of these people. Got into a few grand debt because she paid the minimum, maxed it out, took out other cards, couldn't afford to pay things off etc.

Then we met each other & in the long run i helped clear her debt & change the way she evaluated things. She'd not do it again. Unfortunately many others would.

I don't know the ins and outs TOTALLY of credit cards, but i understand stoozing. I also understand enough to know that if you spend 3k on your credit card, and only have 1k in the bank, and can't get your hands on another 2k any time soon, then you're in trouble. It's a no brainer.

Unfortunately we're riddled with irresponsible people.

I know many may disagree with me there, but that is my OPINION.