MSE News: Hundreds of thousands could miss out on tax rebate

System

le_loup wrote: »

So you don't get notices of coding? You wouldn't miss them if they were sent to your old address?

There are 10s - 100s of thousands of tax payers who never receive notices of coding - just scan through other topics on this forum if you don't believe me
If HMRC sent a P2 form to every tax payer, (10s of millions), the whole tax system would grind to a halt under the work load.

Former_MSE_Dan

Hi folks,

I'm glad there is lively debate going on this. The very reason for the story (it is about to lead our weekly email too), is that not everyone realises you have to directly tell HMRC. We did a quick poll on Martin's facebook page which got a decent number of responses - and 60% of people who had changed address hadn't told the taxman.

This obviously isnt scientific and we wouldnt claim it is. Yet it definitely told us that there is a clear need for this story to be put out. We are a site about saving money and helping consumers, and this absolutely falls into both categories.

Dan

Mikeyorks

MSE_Dan wrote: »

Yet it definitely told us that there is a clear need for this story to be put out.

Which is fine. And the fact that a lot of people don't tell HMRC is borne out by the fact they run a highly staffed tracing service. So we're all paying for those who rather myopically consider 'someone else presumably does it'. If they consider it's the employer's job ..... do they also consider the employer advises their Bank of an address change? After all the employer probably puts more money in the account than anyone else - so why not?

But it's this flavour of the News item I object to :-

.... but the sheer scale of the blunder

There is no 'blunder' ..... it is not the responsibility of the employer to signal an address change .... it's that of the employee. And most of these people not only don't change their address with HMRC - they don't redirect their mail either. So ID related material from HMRC / Banks/ utilities etc is at risk of getting into the hands of others and who may abuse it.

On the subject (mainly earlier posts on this thread, but encapsulated here) :

Most employees have few dealings with HMRC as tax is taken by their employer under PAYE

..... it's simply not true. In the annual bulk coding issue every year HMRC issues in the region of 15M to 16M P2(Coding Notices) to individual employees. They follow that up with a further 4M issued in-year .... not all of which will relate to bulk issue items. So they cover around 18M individual employees every year. Which is a fair percentage of PAYE payers who receive at least one personally addressed communication every year.

chrismac1

"The sheer scale of the tax code blunder is monumental. Over five million errors have been found already and there are millions more suspected."

Note the blunder concerned is nothing to do with the address issue. It clearly refers to the sheer number of errors HMRC have admitted to in the past 6 months on PAYE. In my view 95% plus of the UK electorate would regard this as a monumental failing by an organisation which itself is usually intolerant of mistakes made by taxpayers. The word negligent could be added as there have been many warnings from within HMRC, the accountancy profession and others that this day of reckoning was coming and they've gone unheeded.

I deal with HMRC every single day and it is by a mile the worst feature of my job. I'd much rather negotiate with a UK bank for a small business loan for a client, for example - which itself is like getting blood out of a stone these days.

Complacent jobsworthy error-ridden non-customer focussed arrogant negligent blunder-prone aggressive unsympathetic

There have been a few times lately when I've given someone from hMRC heartfelt thanks and said "that's great, thanks for being so helpful about this." Then I've hung up the phone and thought "Actually what they've just done is pretty box standard in any half-decent UK company. It's only exceptional performance in the context of HMRC."

Mikeyorks

chrismac1 wrote: »

Note the blunder concerned is nothing to do with the address issue. .

Note the word 'flavour' in front of my quote. As the whole article is written on the biased assumption that somehow HMRC should pick up address changes from employers. And the only contra to that is a quote from HMRC.

It clearly refers to the sheer number of errors HMRC have admitted to in the past 6 months on PAYE

What are the errors HMRC have admitted to in respect of underpayments / overpayments .... which is the more specific reference? Remembering back several threads I recollect your usual self advertising take on these being that '50% of the P800s contained howlers'? To only admit, much later in the thread, that only one of your clients was in any way affected.
It's always a problem when you exaggerate ........... remembering what you've said!

chrismac1

6 million errors. 6 million. How much of an exagerration is that, exactly?

System

Mikeyorks wrote: »

....

Most employees have few dealings with HMRC as tax is taken by their employer under PAYE

..... it's simply not true. In the annual bulk coding issue every year HMRC issues in the region of 15M to 16M P2(Coding Notices) to individual employees. They follow that up with a further 4M issued in-year .... not all of which will relate to bulk issue items. So they cover around 18M individual employees every year. Which is a fair percentage of PAYE payers who receive at least one personally addressed communication every year.

I'm not sure which figures are accurate, but a BBC news article from January this year quotes :

The CIOT said the scale of the problem might be indicated by the fact that this year about 25 million coding notices are being distributed, which is about twice last year's number.

If these numbers are correct, then they would hint at the fact that HMRC would normally only send out approx 12.5 million P2s which would indicate that prior to the current exceptional year, "Most" tax payers would not have received a P2 since there are approx 30.5 million income tax payers (according to HMRC figures)

Note, in this current year, a proportion of those extra 12.5 million P2 forms could have been sent to an old address so it is anyones guess how many P2s have actually been received :eek:
Not to mention the fact that some people have received 2 or more P2 forms this year.

le_loup

My, my wife's and my M-in-L's tax affairs are relatively straightforward but We have NEVER not received a Notice of Coding ... and I go back many years.

Nosamp

I got Martins email and updated my address details on the HMRC website and now I want to follow the advice "Once the address is updated, ask HMRC if it sent a letter to your old home"
Can I do this online or via email as I don't seem to be able to find where?

Thank you

chriskathome

I know I'm a jerk for not checking sooner but after receiving the newsletter this morning I checked my tax code.
I followed that with a call to the tax helpline and an hour later I find myself a good deal better off.
I will receive an immediate rebate via my pay of £850 with a further £4,000 or so in the post.
They'd been deducting for a company car and medical insurance for 8 years - that I've never had, my fault I know but the best xmas present ever.(apparently they'll only rebate for 6 years)

I can't tell you how grateful my wife and I are.
Thanks MSE team.
Chris