PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Grounds to evict?

Bit of a hypothetical question here as I don't have lots of details.

The house next to my parents' house is rented out on a 12 month lease. I assume there's no break clause. I think it's about 5 months through the tenancy.

Again assuming that the tenancy contains a clause about no business to be carried on from the house, is breach of that clause potentially a ground to evict within the fixed term? My instinct is that it is not, but would value confirmation one way or the other.

Basically, the neighbours are running a scrap metal business from the house. There are 7 vehicles almost permanently parked on the drive and road, the premises is clearly being used for storage of scrap metal and transfer of metal from one lorry to another.

The council are supportive and have served notices on the neighbours - can't remember the details but I think it related to use of the highway for something they didn't have a licence for.

I think the owners would be prepared to take action to terminate the tenancy early if it was possible (they are on good terms with my parents and all the other neighbours who have also complained).

What do others think? (I assume deposit is protected etc).

Comments

  • sonastin
    sonastin Posts: 3,210 Forumite
    If they are running a business from there then I think it becomes a business lease not a residential tenancy so eviction becomes more possible.

    Have you tried the Environment Agency? If its a scrap business, there are all sorts of waste carrier / handling licences that they should have. Don't sound like the sorts of people who worry too much about having the right paperwork in place if the council aren't getting anywhere.
  • Yorkie1
    Yorkie1 Posts: 12,060 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 16 December 2010 at 11:53PM
    That's an interesting point about the business lease, sonastin - thanks very much. I'll mention it to my parents and see if they want to follow it up with the owner.

    As for the Env Agency, I have a feeling that they may have been involved - either directly or by the council. Not sure of the outcome. Things went quiet for a while, now they've started back up again with a vengeance. Again, I'll pass the details on.

    Edit: have just looked on the Env Agency website. He is registered as a waste carrier at the right address, but don't know whether he either gave misleading information on registration, and/or whether he's breached the terms of any conditions which might be placed on the licence. Again, it's ammunition for the parents in discussion with the council (whose legal department are involved but we all know how slowly they can move ... )
  • tbs624
    tbs624 Posts: 10,816 Forumite
    Yorkie1 wrote: »
    Bit of a hypothetical question here as I don't have lots of details.

    The house next to my parents' house is rented out on a 12 month lease. I assume there's no break clause. I think it's about 5 months through the tenancy.

    Again assuming that the tenancy contains a clause about no business to be carried on from the house, is breach of that clause potentially a ground to evict within the fixed term? My instinct is that it is not, but would value confirmation one way or the other.
    Presuming the property is in E/Wales.

    There are a couple of *discretionary* Grounds on which repossession could be applied for (See Schedule 2 of the Housing Act 1988)
    Ground 12

    Any obligation of the tenancy (other than one related to the payment of rent) has been broken or not performed.

    Ground 14

    [F11The tenant or a person residing in or visiting the dwelling-house—
    (a)has been guilty of conduct causing or likely to cause a nuisance or annoyance to a person residing, visiting or otherwise engaging in a lawful activity in the locality.....

    There are also likely to be Council Tax implications.

    The LL should, if he has not done so already, write to the T pointing out the breach of any relevant clause in the tenancy agreement and requesting that the T desists within 14 days.

    If the LL hasn't already done so , he should serve a S21 notice. Note this is not a Notice to Quit - it is notice that the LL intends to seek repossession of the property after the expiry of the Fixed Term. T does not actually have to go until a Court orders him to do so. If the tenancy deposit paid has not been scheme registered then no valid S21 may be served until it has been.

    The LL should get himself signed up to a LL association or Tessa Shepperson''s LL Law site so that he has access to support for situations such as these.
  • poppysarah
    poppysarah Posts: 11,522 Forumite
    Yorkie1 wrote: »
    Basically, the neighbours are running a scrap metal business from the house. T.


    Ring the council and the police.

    It will not be a registered scrap business operating from a residential property.
  • theartfullodger
    theartfullodger Posts: 15,713 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 17 December 2010 at 12:01PM
    Courts very rarely grant outright possession orders on discretionary grounds, although in this case (for an AST, albeit a Housing Association Landlord) an outright possession order was granted, supported by the Court of Appeal....
    http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2010/12/tis-the-season-for-giving-1/
    Vertigan was the assured shorthold tenant of the claimant. Over the years, it seems that he had done a number of things of which his landlord disapproved, including:
    (a) sawing through the floorboards to access a cellar, which was not demised to him;
    (b) damaging padlocks placed by the landlord to exclude him from certain areas;
    (c) erecting a metal structure outside his flat that he refused to remove; and,
    (d) allowing his dogs to foul the communal areas.
    Why the HA did not simply issue an S21 .. history does not record...

    Your scrap metal dealer does not sound like he'd take any notice of threats of court cases on discretionary grounds.. Best outcome likely would be a (possible) suspended possession order, suspended whilst he does not deal in scrap...

    Cheers!

    Artful
  • Yorkie1
    Yorkie1 Posts: 12,060 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 17 December 2010 at 9:10PM
    Many thanks, all.

    An added complication which I didn't mention is that the LL is abroad (property is fully managed by the letting agents) but this will give mum some useful phrases to use when she contacts the LL.

    I can make some enquiries with the Env Agency about conditions to be a registered waste carrier etc.

    @Poppysarah, if you could clarify why the police in particular may become involved, that would help as I'm not sure I understand your comment.

    It has also occurred to me that there may well be planning permission issues here so will check that the parents have explored that with the council (dad is down there regularly with further photographic evidence!)

    It's frustrating at 200 miles' distance to hear how distressed they are getting over this, with the cavalier attitude being displayed by the neighbour. The wife of the scrap dealer also has a minibus and taxicab associated with her being a private hire driver or similar. They live towards the end of the cul de sac and access for emergency vehicles would be difficult to the end house, given the number of vehicles now on the road.
  • Yorkie1 wrote: »
    Edit: have just looked on the Env Agency website. He is registered as a waste carrier at the right address,

    But if he is storing material on the premises and transferring material between vehicles he probably needs to register the premises as a waste transfer station.

    Depending on the materials they store, it may be a fire hazard.

    You might be worried that there are gas cylinders there and want to contact the fire brigade as well as telling them about obstructions to emergency vehicles.

    Also you might think you've seen rats and want to report that to Env Health as a possible rodent infestation.

    You can also report any suspicions you have of tax or benefit fraud anonymously online.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
  • Yorkie1
    Yorkie1 Posts: 12,060 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    I like your thinking OM!!
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 351.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.2K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 244.2K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 599.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177.1K Life & Family
  • 257.7K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.