A plea and reminder to parents of dogs

lostinrates

Tropez wrote: »

Well said.

In some countries (I couldn't name them off hand, but I believe Canada is one) where they have multiple established parks solely for dog walkers there is sometimes a facility the size of a tennis court (multiple courts in the more popular parks) that patrons can rent out at a nominal sum (for upkeep) for 15-30 minute windows and let their dogs run freely. For very large dogs, the size still might not be sufficient but for the average sized dog I think this is a good solution.

It stuns me sometimes that despite being regarded as a nation of dog lovers, the British seem to be so far behind in providing the adequate facilities for people to care for their dogs in a safe way. As a whippet owner, I know my dogs need sprinting exercise, hence I take them coursing, I pay a friend a small fee to rent out his field and when buying my house the need for a large back garden was very much a deal breaker. Of course, not everyone has access to such facilities, or the money to pay for them.

Many councils in southern England (Hampshire, Dorset and Somerset are the ones I recall) took part in a thorough survey to determine how to better meet the needs of both dog owners and society at large. I believe their conclusions were published in 2005 and it has become part of a wider policy document aimed at improving the facilities available to dog owners, but I think we're still quite some way off the ideal solution for everyone.

Edited to add - I think the best short-term solution we have at the moment is dog walking clubs that are generally found in more rural areas. They meet the needs of people who want their dogs to socialise and usually seek permission of private landowners to walk their dogs on their land, away from other people. This also usually leads to some provisions for off lead time. Of course, these clubs don't exist everywhere, and someone in the centre of London or Birmingham might have difficulties in attending such clubs, but at least it is something.

I like the sound of dog walking clubs, is there a reference for this on the net? I have land I'd be happy for dog safe dogs to run about on at organised times and dates.

Frankly, I think their are spending priorities above dog walking places ATM,and for hooning dogs a tennis court sized area seems to be to be a recipe for disaster for more social but sedate dogs who would be horrified at a young greyhound letting off steam when it first came off lead! but we could apply our common sense and not walk in wide open fenced spaces suitable for hooning dogs with our dogs that need to be on leads, and vice versa! Everything in-between would, I expect, remain contentious!

Perhaps parks could have an ''off lead'' hour twice/three times a day but no other time....things like that would be cheaper to initiate I think...?

Most times I am really proud of my dogs, but even the best behaved dogs have their moments. One of mine is the time we were walking in a popular off lead place (near Alfred's Tower on the Stourhead estate) and people were lovely to the dogs, who are very gregarious, but used to being hated because of size and speed and they followed the people into alfred's tower :mad::eek:

lostinrates

Tropez, the thing about coursing that wouldn't suit us is that we have spent a long time making sure the ''chase'' instinct is not fully engaged in sight hounds.Teaching my greyhound to course might indeed, encourage her to chase our cats and render her unsuitable for the ''work'' she does. Its a very fine line, meeting a dog's innate needs and instincts yet also nipping those traits i the bud should they lead to other social problems. My dos hooning about together is offputting for many, I accept, but much less bad then chasing and killing their cats if they cross my garden would be!

edit: how do you find this with your whippets, are they fine about small furries?

Tropez

lostinrates wrote: »

I like the sound of dog walking clubs, is there a reference for this on the net? I have land I'd be happy for dog safe dogs to run about on.

Frankly, I think their are spending priorities above dog walking places ATM,and for hooning dogs a tennis court sized area seems to be to be a recipe for disaster for more social but sedate dogs who would be horrified at a young greyhound letting off steam when it first came off lead! but we could apply our common sense and not walk in wide open fenced spaces suitable for hooning dogs with our dogs that need to be on leads, and vice versa! Everything in-between would, I expect, remain contentious!

Perhaps parks could have an ''off lead'' hour twice/three times a day but no other time....things like that would be cheaper to initiate I think...?

Most times I am really proud of my dogs, but even the best behaved dogs have their moments. One of mine is the time we were walking in a popular off lead place (near Alfred's Tower on the Stourhead estate) and people were lovely to the dogs, who are very gregarious, but used to being hated because of size and speed and they followed the people into alfred's tower :mad::eek:

I'm not sure whether there is a database or anything that provides information for all dog walking clubs in the country. I found a couple when googling for social clubs in my area shortly after I moved to where I now live. I've just done a quick search but I'm finding a mixture of various things, from rambling clubs to dog walking services. It would probably take a little investigation to find a dog walking club in your area.

Dog forums (such as K9 Community, Staffy forums, Whippet forums and other breed specific ones) may have some more information but I think it is probably one of those things that need to be routed out. There are a lot of walking groups in the country, so perhaps some of these allow dog walks too? A possibility. Ramblers UK allows dogs on some of its walks but I doubt the chances of allowing off lead exercise for the dog.

Likely to find a good dog walking club in the UK you'd have to look at local resources as opposed to national ones.

And yes, obviously, with the economic climate there is a lot more pressing matters than dog parks and money has to be spent on other things first. I've often wondered the possibilities of private business opening such parks in this country but the legal issues (such as one dog attacking another) and insurance may make such a concept unfeasible.

Tropez

lostinrates wrote: »

Tropez, the thing about coursing that wouldn't suit us is that we have spent a long time making sure the ''chase'' instinct is not fully engaged in sight hounds.Teaching my greyhound to course might indeed, encourage her to chase our cats and render her unsuitable for the ''work'' she does. Its a very fine line, meeting a dog's innate needs and instincts yet also nipping those traits i the bud should they lead to other social problems. My dos hooning about together is offputting for many, I accept, but much less bad then chasing and killing their cats if they cross my garden would be!

edit: how do you find this with your whippets, are they fine about small furries?

Understandable and I'm sure if I kept cats I would feel much the same way.

I've said a couple of times on this forum I'm a little concerned that one day one of my dogs might catch the cat that keeps coming into my garden. Frankly, I find that particular cat to be a pest because it does damage to my garden, but I still wouldn't want any harm to come to it because I'm sure its someone's beloved pet. I don't believe my dogs would harm it as I have trained them as much as possible to ignore the kill instinct when they catch something - that sharp movement of the neck when they have something in their teeth - they don't do that anymore when they catch a toy or a lure during coursing and I would hope that they wouldn't do it if they caught the cat but it is something I am a little concerned about. The fact that they will still put a toy or lure in their jaws is too dangerous anyway, particularly if the cat tried to fight back - they're a bunch of wimps but I've no doubt they could act if threatened.

I'm 90% sure that they just want to play with that cat but the 10% doubt leaves me wary enough, so I'm always on the lookout.

With other small furries they will recall (I can't tell you how delighted I was the day Milly finally learned to come back!) so a mouse or something in the field I take them to is generally not something to worry about. I can tell when they've spotted something because they go into what I call "hunter mode" - ears alert, head focused on something, but a quick call will break them from that. They will also recall during coursing (it is one of the conditions of the club they attend that all dogs recall on first command) so while they are predisposed to act on their natural instinct to chase small furries, they know to stop if I tell them to.

But it is always a concern to be honest. I'm a believer that a dog needs to be continually conditioned to behave in a certain way so I do a lot of work during walkies to encourage them to always come back when I call them because I just feel if I didn't then one day they would "forget" that recall means "come back now" and continue with their hunt.

EDIT - I should add that Zoe is usually a lot more laid back about small furries. She's not disinterested as such but she doesn't seem to have the same drive as Milly to catch things. Zoe's the reason I never win anything at coursing! :rotfl: The dogs are entered in pairs so one dog being half hearted about it ruins my score!

Sandy, the youngest, is a lot like Milly though and will gleefully bandy around chasing all and sundry but I still need to do some work with her before she can go coursing as she won't recall on first command yet (usually two or three).

lostinrates

Tropez wrote: »

But it is always a concern to be honest. I'm a believer that a dog needs to be continually conditioned to behave in a certain way so I do a lot of work during walkies to encourage them to always come back when I call them because I just feel if I didn't then one day they would "forget" that recall means "come back now" and continue with their hunt.

Couldn't agree more. And its nice to know other sight hound owners are persevering with this! We find timing of recall vital, once the switch has ''switched'' and they run I find its better to let them go for ten-20 seconds then call, depending obviously on circumstance,....otherwise I find they ignore and it makes the command less strong if persisted with. But get them before the red mist of ''chase'' is pervasive we're fine. (I guess what I call ''the switch'' is the same as your ''hunter mode'')

We do lots of recall for a treat to reinforce, but of course the less they run off lead in public the more exciting it gets, the more resistance is eventually built between their tolerance and their training.

I want a whippet *sigh*. All the ''guts'' of the best of the sight hounds and socially acceptably sized.:(

Tropez

lostinrates wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. And its nice to know other sight hound owners are persevering with this! We find timing of recall vital, once the switch has ''switched'' and they run I find its better to let them go for ten-20 seconds then call, depending obviously on circumstance,....otherwise I find they ignore and it makes the command less strong if persisted with. But get them before the red mist of ''chase'' is pervasive we're fine.

We do lots of recall for a treat to reinforce, but of course the less they run off lead in public the more exciting it gets, the more resistance is eventually built between their tolerance and their training.

I want a whippet *sigh*. All the ''guts'' of the best of the sight hounds and socially acceptably sized.:(

Agreed. I find if you can distract them before they sprint then they'll come back because at that time, to me it seems like they're just sizing up their opportunities and haven't made a decision whether to go for it yet. I think it's getting them before they gallop that it is the key - you can tell when they're closing in because they burn that extra bit of energy and start to move faster, usually preparing for their dramatic leap - I'd regard that as the point of no return.

It requires a lot of patience and constantly being aware of how they're all behaving. It isn't any good focusing solely on one dog you've just chucked a ball for while the others have spotted some prey! I made an edit to my previous post about Sandy not recalling immediately, in case you missed it.

It all pays off though. I think they're fantastic and love all three of them. The first whippet I had was a rescue dog. We'd lost a JRT a few months prior (went into shock after being stung ) and mum took me to the dogs home. I'd never been interested in any sort of sighthound before - I actually assumed all sighthounds were greyhounds at that age - but I saw this beautiful, fawn whippet there and ordered mum to get it! :rotfl:

She was a lovely, sweet little thing. Extremely timid because some scumbag had mistreated her - all she wanted to do was cuddle up to you. I was devastated when she died.

Odd little bit of sentiment but when she passed away I had her cremated and buried the box with her ashes in the garden and planted a rose bush on top of it. Both Milly and Zoe, who I did have at the time, are always very careful not to damage it almost as if they know what it means. I know they probably have other reasons but it always makes me smile.

Gingham_Ribbon

threemuttleys wrote: »

I have to say that this is a big pet hate of mine. I have three dogs, one stays on her lead in most areas, because she is dog aggressive. Yet I still have people allowing their dogs to gallop up to her, and "call your dog back, she doesnt like other dogs" is so often met with "its ok s/he is friendly" "well she bloody isnt, unless you want your dog to get hurt hurry up"!

Does your aggressive dog have a muzzle on when you walk her?

What if you happen to be walking past a small child (whose parents aren't right next to them, because it's a safe area to play) and she mistakes the playing for a threat and attacks her?

What if it's a puppy being trained that approaches?

What if it decides to just go for someone in the street?

Is your dog ever around children?

bouncydog1

And while we're on the subject of dogs off leads, a pet hate of mine is dogs that chase horses and try and nip at their heels.

This happened to my DD on a beach near our home. She asked the dog owner to call the dog back and got a very ignorant reply. Had the horse decided to kick out the dog could have been badly injured or killed - her horse could also have bolted causing injury to itself, the rider and anyone else that got in the way.

And before anyone says anything about horses not being allowed on beaches etc, the same rules should apply as to dog owners e.g. they must be under control.

lostinrates

bouncyd!!! wrote: »

And while we're on the subject of dogs off leads, a pet hate of mine is dogs that chase horses and try and nip at their heels.

This happened to my DD on a beach near our home. She asked the dog owner to call the dog back and got a very ignorant reply. Had the horse decided to kick out the dog could have been badly injured or killed - her horse could also have bolted causing injury to itself, the rider and anyone else that got in the way.

And before anyone says anything about horses not being allowed on beaches etc, the same rules should apply as to dog owners e.g. they must be under control.

I think its quite hard for a lot of pet owners to have access to train dogs to leave horses. I try and help counter this by making sure my horses are dog safe and are used to the dogs snuffling around and sometimes leaping around the yard a bit: they know that sometimes dogs run. Its not as easy as training the other way round, of course, but invaluable.

elsien

Gingham_Ribbon wrote: »

Does your aggressive dog have a muzzle on when you walk her?

What if you happen to be walking past a small child (whose parents aren't right next to them, because it's a safe area to play) and she mistakes the playing for a threat and attacks her?

What if it's a puppy being trained that approaches?
QUOTE]

No mine doesn't. Because she was attacked several times by off lead dogs, (the last time yesterday by an owner whose only comment was "he's never done that before"), couldn't defend herself, and it made her far more nervous and aggressive. So I now work on the basis that if a dog approaches her after I have warned them and the owner does not have the control to call their dog away so it gets hurt, that is their problem not mine. Dog aggression does not mean that a dog will be aggressive towards people.

As far as small children go, she has a halti so if she tries to snap I can pull her head away from them and her mouth shut. If there are any children around I put her on a short lead to heel, with myself between her and them, make her sit and tell them my dog is a naughty dog and doesn't like playing. And if they are too young to understand that, then I would expect the parents to be close enough to intervene. And as a last resort on the rare occasions when kids still come too close I put my hand on her mouth and hold her head so she cannot snap. I know my dog, and in that situation she will not pull away to bite me or them, and I most certainly never give her the oportunity. Kids around means dog glued to my side, and me walking the other way if I feel I need to.

She may be a bull terrier, but she tries to snap and scarper. She will not ever bite and savage as you see in the papers - if she was going to do that she'd have done it by now to one of the many dogs that has attacked her. She's had many opportunities and has never ever even come close.

And if it's a puppy being trained it shouldn't be off lead and approaching strange dogs anyway. Aside from which she only becomes aggressive if feeling threatened, and pups have an automatic defence of rolling over and presenting their bellies. Which removes the threat so mutt will then ignore them.