Ron Paul on Wikileaks

Generali

vivatifosi wrote: »

I don't think he's committed treason.

He has however revealed the location of the smallpox vaccine plant along with the location of lots of other strategic sites on the "100 most strategic sites" list which has been talked about a lot without mentioning what's actually on it. A lot of people talk about it as though it is a list of palaces etc, but it is far more infrastructure than anything else.

I do think there is a parallel between where the nukes are hidden and where the smallpox vaccine is hidden because they can both ensure a nation's survival: one through the threat of hitting back and the other in terms of reduction of the impact of biological warfare. It is precisely this sort of information that shouldn't be released.

Just for you Gen I watched the Fox interview (five mins of my life I'll never get back;)) which was illustrative of the kind of right wing claptrap that is regularly spouted on the station. The strange thing is, they honestly believe that assassinating Assange would be the end of this, not that the information will now be backed up and held in safekeeping against such situations, nor that if Wikileaks didn't leak the document, a similar site (which they don't seem to realise exist) would. Scary.

The interesting thing for me about all this is that this really shows now that the internet has changed the world. Fk shopping and nattering about house prices, nothing is secret potentially.

My Dad spent much of the 1980s designing databases that would allow armies to know where all their weapons were, I think he did this for 3 or 4 armies.

These days if there was a country he didn't much like or he just got drunk and did something silly he could have published a country's entire military capability pretty much down to the last bullet on the internet and once it's out there, it stays out there.

I'd be interested in PN's take on this. Is there any way that the US Government or even all of the Governments of the world combined could shut down Wikileaks and all the associated mirror sites and so on?

tomterm8

mostlycheerful wrote: »

tomterm8 : “It is perfectly possible to act in a way that damages your countries national interest or harms democracy without commiting treason.”

Ok, yes, perhaps I should drop the handy word treason from my vocabularly about this subject if in fact I’m using it incorrectly or unnecessarily or inappropriately and just stick to phrases like “damaging interests” and “undermining the west’s military power” and such like. Yes, I’m willing to listen and learn and I’m interested in attempting to express myself correctly and I don’t know much about any of this, just a superficial awareness of it via the media so thanks for pointing that out and explaining it.

Yes, I certainly agree that you should use the English language as accurately as you can.

After all, words matter, as the paediatrician who was attacked by the mob found out.

Generali wrote: »

I'd be interested in PN's take on this. Is there any way that the US Government or even all of the Governments of the world combined could shut down Wikileaks and all the associated mirror sites and so on?

No. There isn't.

More specifically, all the information that the American government wants restricted is now on tens of thousands of computers, thousands of which are untraceable.

Generali

tomterm8 wrote: »

After all, words matter, as the paediatrician who was attacked by the mob found out.

I think that was in Portsmouth and if memory serves, Private Eye the week before ran a cartoon of someone being chased by a mob shouting back, 'No, no I'm a paediatrician'.

A._Badger

What I find amusing is the way Assange's dibbling mostly confirms the view of the pragmatic Right. The Saudis are hypocrites, funding terrorism, while simultaneously wishing the West would nuke Iran - Pakistan is a hell-hole - Brown was useless - Cameron is a callow youth - Gaddafi is a nutcase - China is a bully - the Middle East is as bothered as Israel by the lunatics in Iran - there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq - Afghanistan is a kleptocracy - Sarkozy is a cocky little Frenchman - Berlesconi is an unfaithful buffoon.

Not a whisper of 'Geroge W. Bush eats babies' or 'Exxon sectretly owns NATO'.

I can't really see why the Guardianistas are in such a state of febrile excitment. Just about everything they believe is being proved wrong.

Generali

A._Badger wrote: »

What I find amusing is the way Assange's dibbling mostly confirms the view of the pragmatic Right. The Saudis are hypocrites, funding terrorism, while simultaneously wishing the West would nuke Iran - Pakistan is a hell-hole - Brown was useless - Cameron is a callow youth - Gaddafi is a nutcase - China is a bully - the Middle East is as bothered as Israel by the lunatics in Iran - there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq - Afghanistan is a kleptocracy - Sarkozy is a cocky little Frenchman - Berlesconi is an unfaithful buffoon.

Not a whisper of 'Geroge W. Bush eats babies' or 'Exxon sectretly owns NATO'.

I can't really see why the Guardianistas are in such a state of febrile excitment. Just about everything they believe is being proved wrong.

The great thing for me is that the 'truth', the original sources are being laid bare. No spin, no bllshit, no weasel words. Just the unexpurgated words of the writers of the official documents.

Rumour has it that Wikileaks also has the hard drive of the CEO of Bank of America. That could be a laugh too.

Oh and remember. You can use your Mastercard or Visa to donate to the Klan or the BNP but not to Wikileaks.

vivatifosi

I'm currently looking at a Wikileaks mirror site. It would appear (I kid you not) that now PayPal et al have been taken out of the equation they are getting donations via an Icelandic bank (Landsbanki). Also, if you're German, your donations are tax deductible...

Wookster

I find it astonishing how all these proponents of free speech & the American way (read Palin/ Huckabee etc) have been calling for Assange's assassination.

They fail to grasp a simple point: you can't lobby for freedom of the press only when it suits you.

Kohoutek

Wookster wrote: »

They fail to grasp a simple point: you can't lobby for freedom of the press only when it suits you.

More worrying to me is the lack of understanding that you can't lobby for murder only when it suits you either.

poppingjay

Some would say joining the EU was treason. It's certainly had a bigger effect on the average UK citizen than anything Wikileaks could publish. The 'war on terror' has had a more restraining effect on the public than the terrorists themselves.

The people are this country not the state

Snooze

Wookster wrote: »

I find it astonishing how all these proponents of free speech & the American way (read Palin/ Huckabee etc) have been calling for Assange's assassination.

They fail to grasp a simple point: you can't lobby for freedom of the press only when it suits you.

The only reason they are calling for his assassination is because their own consciences aren't clear and they're $hitting themselves that they'll be in the next leak.