House prices....

x12yhp

Exactly, Easymoney. Unfortunately everyone is hoping someone else will lower prices and get someone new onto the pyramid... sooner or later the whole thing will collapse if those already on it do not wise up!

As for numbers... I am unsure. I am confident it wont be good but exactly how bad, i dont know.

Easymoney

x12yhp wrote: »

That may be right for differing properties but there are very very few like properties where renting and a repayment mortgage cost the same. You will struggle to achieve that on an interest only mortgage but that is simply renting from the bank. Worse than that, with a dropping market, you will have to pay the bank EXTRA when you want to leave - that doesn't happen in rentals.

As for deposits when renting... sorry but you are wrong. With a combined income of about £40k (which is less than average NI) we were able to save upwards of £1k per month with £600 rent, utilities, food, etc. Admittedly that is a couple but a single person who is adequately dedicated would need to spend much less than we did. In any case, £20k is not a very high salary - it should be no foregone conclusion that a single person on that salary MUST be able to afford a house. It is a very British assumption that you must be able to own your own home. It is common, elsewhere in the world, that lower earners would not really expect to own their home.

Long term rent is only a false economy if house prices diverge from you. If you save enough or if house prices are falling, then rent is a mathematically sensible approach.

By your own admission, a single person on low income will struggle to save.

For many, renting is out of necessity, not by choice.

Ultimately, longterm rental is just putting off the day when you have to take out a mortgage.

At least those who are paying a mortgage are investing in something, all be it an over priced investment (assuming they bought within the last 6-7yrs)

Interest only mortgages are a fools game

Mathematically speaking, you can only work so many years in a lifetime say 35-40yrs.

Do you propose someone rents for years, then takes out a 10-20 yr mortgage repayment as opposed to 25-30yr mortgage?
As a result being financially crippled in the process from higher payments over a shorter time period. Worse still rent all your working life with nothing to show for it...........yeah right! :rolleyes:

Witless

x12yhp wrote: »

With a combined income of about £40k (which is less than average NI)

I beg to differ. The overall average when taking into account salaries of £250k (NIWater head) may be a combined income of £40k - but IMHO the majority don't earn anywhere near that.

As the recession starts to bite (it hasn't yet) we'll see fewer high salaries, reducing incomes and a raft of take it or leave it minimum wage jobs.

x12yhp

Easymoney wrote: »

By your own admission, a single person on low income will struggle to save.

For many, renting is out of necessity, not by choice.

Ultimately, longterm rental is just putting off the day when you have to take out a mortgage.

At least those who are paying a mortgage are investing in something, all be it an over priced investment (assuming they bought within the last 6-7yrs)

Interest only mortgages are a fools game

Mathematically speaking, you can only work so many years in a lifetime say 35-40yrs.

Do you propose someone rents for years, then takes out a 10-20 yr mortgage repayment as opposed to 25-30yr mortgage?
As a result being financially crippled in the process from higher payments over a shorter time period. Worse still rent all your working life with nothing to show for it...........yeah right! :rolleyes:

Yes, it is tough for a single person on a low income. You are assuming that it is their RIGHT to own a house. It is not. Now I am all for lower prices but I am against the idea that everyone should be able to afford their own home. If someone is struggling to save and really want a home, then they should do something about it. If they cannot save whilst living in private rental, then they will REALLY struggle with mortgage repayments and all the other bills they would not have paid whilst renting. I think the fact that they are struggling in a rental should ring alarm bells and tell you that they are not in a position to be lent hundreds of thousands of pounds.

If a property looses more than the repayment portion of their mortgage, then they would have been better off renting. Mathematical certainty. At the moment, this would be the case. Hence renting works at the moment.

Your last paragraph again assumes some sort of right. Why? Why should someone necessarily have a house of their own at the end of it all? That is not how life works. If someone works really hard towards something they really want then you might argue that they deserve to get it. But a lot of people just potter through life, make rather little effort and yet still expect the same things.

x12yhp

Witless wrote: »

I beg to differ. The overall average when taking into account salaries of £250k (NIWater head) may be a combined income of £40k - but IMHO the majority don't earn anywhere near that.

As the recession starts to bite (it hasn't yet) we'll see fewer high salaries, reducing incomes and a raft of take it or leave it minimum wage jobs.

The stats indicate otherwise. I was not talking about 'mean' salaries. The median salary in NI is above £20k and this is free from skew from both high and low salaries. £20k is not a bad number at all.

Easymoney

x12yhp wrote: »

Yes, it is tough for a single person on a low income. You are assuming that it is their RIGHT to own a house. It is not. Now I am all for lower prices but I am against the idea that everyone should be able to afford their own home. If someone is struggling to save and really want a home, then they should do something about it. If they cannot save whilst living in private rental, then they will REALLY struggle with mortgage repayments and all the other bills they would not have paid whilst renting. I think the fact that they are struggling in a rental should ring alarm bells and tell you that they are not in a position to be lent hundreds of thousands of pounds.

If a property looses more than the repayment portion of their mortgage, then they would have been better off renting. Mathematical certainty. At the moment, this would be the case. Hence renting works at the moment.

Your last paragraph again assumes some sort of right. Why? Why should someone necessarily have a house of their own at the end of it all? That is not how life works. If someone works really hard towards something they really want then you might argue that they deserve to get it. But a lot of people just potter through life, make rather little effort and yet still expect the same things.

Are you taking the view that property is theft!!!

Why, why would anyone not want to own a house, with something to show for it at the end of their working life.
I'm sure I speak for the majority of home owners....the same reason why you or anybody else does.......the so-called american dream, putting down roots, financial investment, security in life after retirement with no huge outgoings every month, financial gain over a long term, something to show for all your hard work, to better oneself, pass on a house to future generations.......... need I go on?

Even our politicians talk about an infrastructure of affordable housing........so what is affordable housing.

In late 2005 prices increased whereas salaries did not, they still havent, it's disproportionate.

There is a big difference between saving in a sustainable environment and trying to save for something beyond the reach of many. Had things continued in 2004 at a steady rate, many would be position to buy and possibly move on to a bigger house.

IMHO something fundamentally wrong with the system when the average worker, nurses, teachers etc cant afford to buy a house due to the lending criteria/house prices.

there is no right to owning a house, but by the same token; why should someone be denied the right or privilege of buying an affordable house if they choose to do so.

Easymoney

x12yhp wrote: »

The stats indicate otherwise. I was not talking about 'mean' salaries. The median salary in NI is above £20k and this is free from skew from both high and low salaries. £20k is not a bad number at all.

Ask yourself, if something happened and you and your OH split, how then would you cope, what houses could you get on a salary of £20k.


I think you would change your tune somewhat.

crusty_toenail

It would be interesting to know how many houses are actually selling, does anyone know where you can get this info?

Anyone I know who has a house for sale has given up now.

I bought a house in summer 2010, only because I sold early 2008 and rented until I found one I liked at the right price (rateable value) - a free upgrade from a 3 bed semi to big detached with land.

My neighbours told me I was 'giving the house away' because I priced it below others similar on my street, but I didn't want to chase the market down. Now their houses are still for sale but priced 60k below what I got for mine.

Sure I had to rent for a while (not dead money)...... but I have a lovely house now, with very low mortgage.

My advice to anyone thinking about buying a house in NI is - it is still to early, a little bit of patience renting and you will get a cracker:) Oh and never take housing market advice from estate agents

x12yhp

Easymoney wrote: »

Are you taking the view that property is theft!!!

Oh for goodness sakes. NO!!

Have you read anything I wrote?! I am saying that nobody has a god given right to any material thing. People really want things. You might say that it would only be fair that everyone can own their own home. But that is an ideology. It is something you or someone else has invented. It is not a law of the universe. It is not a low of our country. It is something you have made up. You could make up anything but the simple reality remains that we do not have a system which allows it. The world would have to change and it is not a matter of telling people that renting is dead money. You are talking about an ideal. That is all it is. You cannot force it on the world; now especially since so many who believed it have ended up out of pocket.

Easymoney wrote: »

Ask yourself, if something happened and you and your OH split, how then would you cope, what houses could you get on a salary of £20k.


I think you would change your tune somewhat.

You know what... we didn't buy a house with our combined salary. We didnt do it even with a 20% deposit. You know what else? We are 10s of thousands of pounds better off as a result. That is inspite of having to pay rent. I also know that Tara is a renter and wisely avoided purchasing. Inspite of years of rent she has a massive deposit saved and probably has more real 'equity' than the majority of similarly aged people who took your view and jumped into the market without due consideration.

Easymoney

x12yhp wrote: »

Oh for goodness sakes. NO!!

Have you read anything I wrote?! I am saying that nobody has a god given right to any material thing. People really want things. You might say that it would only be fair that everyone can own their own home. But that is an ideology. It is something you or someone else has invented. It is not a law of the universe. It is not a low of our country. It is something you have made up. You could make up anything but the simple reality remains that we do not have a system which allows it. The world would have to change and it is not a matter of telling people that renting is dead money. You are talking about an ideal. That is all it is. You cannot force it on the world; now especially since so many who believed it have ended up out of pocket.



You know what... we didn't buy a house with our combined salary. We didnt do it even with a 20% deposit. You know what else? We are 10s of thousands of pounds better off as a result. That is inspite of having to pay rent. I also know that Tara is a renter and wisely avoided purchasing. Inspite of years of rent she has a massive deposit saved and probably has more real 'equity' than the majority of similarly aged people who took your view and jumped into the market without due consideration.

By law you are paying a mortgage in a legally binding contract, its not an ideology. I assume you did read it before signing.

I have referred to the wider demographics of NI, rephrasing the FTB'er question, how many were in a household less than £40k, as for named individuals, it is only fair to ask, are they renting exclusively from their own salary, its easy to save with two salaries coming in.

Again, if you had answered my question about your own salary, you'd see the housing game in a different light.

If renting is so profitable, why arent you still doing so? we'll soon call your bluff!!