Burst pipe in my house - neighbour uninsured

Eton_Rifle

Do you know what (if anything) caused the burst pipe?
It seems rather co-incidental that the tenant was away - did they turn off the central heating before they left, by any chance?

CloudCuckooLand

CCCS1986, I'm afraid you are totally mistaken in your inability to see how the OP could be liable.

Insurance, of any sort, is a red-herring.

Liability lies with the cause of the damage. How that is paid for, insurance/cash/replacement of goods etc is a whole other story.

Sorry if I confused things by introducing car insurance to the thread. But as PasturesNew and DVardysShadow rightly say, being uninsured, of itself, is not a reason to go without recompense in the event of an insured person being liable.

Or another uninsured person for that matter - it just means you have to sue them, rather than the insurance take care of it.

Ability to pay recompense has nothing to do with the fact of being liable.

Torry_Quine

DVardysShadow wrote: »

This is largely mistaken. There is a freeze on and a burst is forseeable. Negligence is scarcely relevant. Yhe water is a "nuisance" emanating from OP's property. OP is liable for consequences of failing to prevent the nuisance.[/QUOTE)

If every precaution was taken that would reasonably be expected such as leaving heating on then there is no legal liability.

cccs1986

Insurance, of any sort, is a red-herring.

Liability lies with the cause of the damage. How that is paid for, insurance/cash/replacement of goods etc is a whole other story.


I'm sure you're right, but I'm also sure the only thing that interests the poster is who has to pay up!

MMLS

I started a new thread with the following but was advised to carry on with this one

I posted a few weeks ago about a burst water pipe that damaged both mine and my neighbours house. The tenant was away and hadn't taken precautions to insure that the house was protected against frost damage. Our neighbour wasn't insured and it turns out that under the terms of our insurance, neither were we. The tenant is liable according to my solicitor but we know there's no way we're going to get any money out of him. (Except the bond). We also know that we're liable for next door's damage.

From the start I've reassured our neighbour that they don't need to worry but now they're starting to worry me!

Firstly the quote that they got from their friend - a builder who was giving them a knock down price and doing it as favour for both them and us - turns out to be more than 5 times what my builder quoted. Needless to say, my builder is now doing the work. Now they want £1000 for their bed which they threw outside, along with all the carpet, when the water came through. I'm not sure how the bed got soaked as the water didn't come through the ceiling and one of their family members told us that it wasn't wet anyway. They also want £40 a sq metre for the carpet which the same family member told our builder was second hand and bought after a scam insurance payout. We did get a sample of the carpet so we can get some idea of the price but in itself that's frustrating. They threw all the carpet out but the carpet in my house has dried out nicely with no damage and no smell (the water after all, was clean water from the tank) and my house is many times worse than theirs!

So how do I arrive at a fair price when everything has been disposed of and I have no proof of the price that they paid for it originally. And without going in to detail I very much doubt that the prices I've been quoted by them were the ones that they originally paid.

From the start I've been totally fair and haven't wanted them to be a penny out of pocket but now I suspect they're after all they can get. They know that I've had to get loans to pay for it all, they know this isn't an insurance job, they know that it wasn't even my fault...it's not as though any of this was malicious.

Any constructive advice would be gratefully received. (I honestly don't need lectures - I'm doing my damnedest to do the right thing without being taken for a ride). I just want to know how to arrive at a price fair to both of us.

**More has come to light since my first post though none of it changes things as such!

sonastin

I think its time to start getting tough with the neighbours. You don't have to make their house better than before, you only have to put it back how it was. If they don't accept what you are offering, they'll have to take you to court for the compensation they want. Without evidence of what damage was done, they're on a sticky wicket. Offer what you think is genuinely owed. Itemise what you are willing to pay for and why, and what you don't think is a realistic expense and why. Get them to prove why you should pay more. If it did end up in court and the judge saw you had made efforts to offer a reasonable settlement, he's more likely to find in your favour.

olly300

To get a fair price you need to see all the goods they chucked outside.

As they have chucked them all away the only thing you can do is go to a department store in your local area and price up mid-range replacements from that.

As they have disposed of them and have no receipts then you can only offer them a mid-market price i.e. £40 a metre for a carpet is a joke particularly when it doesn't include the underlay and fitting.

I would then make a detailed list of everything and then get your solicitor to write them a letter enclosing that list stating that you couldn't examine these goods etc. this is what you are offering as a settlement. (They will probably realise that if you have bothered to get a solicitor involved you will not be mucked around. However tell the solicitor that replies should be addressed to you or forwarded to you without them dealing with them so you don't pay more for the solicitor's time. )

If they then want more money they will have to take you to the small claims court and prove to the judge that:
1. The goods cost more - which they can't prove
2. You aren't being reasonable - which you are as you are replace old goods with new ones and the new ones are not the cheapest. Old goods are worth a fraction of their value second hand.

Yes you will be out of pocket but you need think if you didn't do this what would a judge award them if it went to court?

BTW I would ignore all the things the family member has been saying as while they may be true you cannot prove it.

Annisele

I'm not sure I'd pay anything for the carpet. Where did the sample you have come from? Is it part of the laid carpet that got wet? If the sample did get wet, what state is it in now - can you use it to show that the carpet would have been just fine if left to dry out?

Similarly for the bed - if they didn't even give it chance to dry out, then I'm not sure I'd pay them anything for it.

If your builder is doing the work, and you are paying the builder directly, you might not need to offer them any cash compensation at all.

olly300

Annisele wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd pay anything for the carpet. Where did the sample you have come from? Is it part of the laid carpet that got wet? If the sample did get wet, what state is it in now - can you use it to show that the carpet would have been just fine if left to dry out?

Similarly for the bed - if they didn't even give it chance to dry out, then I'm not sure I'd pay them anything for it.

If your builder is doing the work, and you are paying the builder directly, you might not need to offer them any cash compensation at all.

That's fine then - the neighbours would just take the OP to the small claims court to get some money out of them for their belongings.

Remember the small claims are ruled on the balance of probabilities and the fact that the OP has paid for a builder to do work on the house would indicate that the damage was a lot.

paul1964_2

MMLS wrote: »

Firstly the quote that they got from their friend - a builder who was giving them a knock down price and doing it as favour for both them and us - turns out to be more than 5 times what my builder quoted. Needless to say, my builder is now doing the work.

Have you compared the quotes to make sure the cheaper buider has quoted for all the necessary work.

One of my neighbours had a leak last year and the builder (contracted by the insurance company) decorated over some of the damage. Within a few months, the wallpaper was coming off along with some of the plaster and the gloss paint was peeling off the woodwork. In the end, the walls had to be replastered and redecorated.

As for the bed and carpet, do your neighbours know the manufacturer's name for either? If they do, you could try to find out a rough cost. If they don't, it would be difficult for them to prove that mid-range replacements are not appropriate.

Out of interest, how does your solicitor come to the decision that your tenant was liable for a burst pipe in the attic?