Unauthorized Credit Card use - HSBC Reluctant to help

106rallye

Please can anyone advise me what to do?

5th April in France at some point late in the evening my wallet was 'lost' turns out stolen. I woke up the next day and as soon as i noticed my wallet missing went to the bar where i was and the police station etc. (was in a ski resort where i worked and lots of people knew me so wanted to check no one had it) once i had checked everywhere realistically I rang up to cancel all my cards.

I asked HSBC - has any transaction taken place recently, all responded NO and none outstanding. So cancelled all my cards, got new ones issued and thought that was the end of it.

In my june or july statement a charge of nearly £400 turns up, as i never use this account i called up to query. Was told it was using the new cc number and it was not done via chip and pin and was going to request info from merchant.

Rang them a few times and no progress - eventually they call me today and say charge was an account adjustment for a payment charged on the 6th of April and that it WAS in fact a chip and pin verified transaction ( impossible as i don't even know the pin for this account and i didn't have it with me in France!) - there is nothing they can now do. When pushed for more information about the time of the transaction and more merchant details (couldn't even tell me what country!) incuding contact details they said they did not have them but would 'try' and get them to me.

Next Phone call with them was the beginning of October - when i finally got some more information out of them - they had sent me a copy of the reciept and it had been faxed from the shop. It had a forged signature on it - but the shop keeper had written that it was a chip and pin transaction as well - HSBC have not checked this but instead are taking the shopkeepers word on it - as i understand if it is Chip and Pin the shopkeeper gets to keep the cash, if its a sig then he has to refund - I worked in a shop in france and if it was Chip and Pin it never asked for a sig as well even on much higher value items than this.

They are now telling me that they will not proceed any investigations without a Crime Reference Number even though it has been used again on the autoroutes (I had to explain to them how this was possible!) which is proving difficult to get as firstly my french is not amazing, I did not originally report my wallet as stolen anyway as i was assured no one had used my account and after it was canceled they couldn't anyway and thirdly there aren't many people arround in the Alps at the moment.

Could really do with some advice on what to do next?

Thanks in advance sorry about the mammoth first post


Andy

123money

hi

i had a similar expernice excpet . i put my card in the cash poni and somone copied my deatils and my card and was using the card abroad. i had to go to the police for crime ref number then give it to the bank. once youy have done this they will then refund you.
my problem was hsbc on refunded me two of the payment and not the other one. hsbc are not very helpful.

106rallye

Did you go to the UK police or the police in the country where the crime was commited?

Call_Centre_Monkey

I'm afraid without the lack of crime reference number and the time already passed means it is very unlikely you'll see that money again.

106rallye

Call_Centre_Monkey wrote:

I'm afraid without the lack of crime reference number and the time already passed means it is very unlikely you'll see that money again.

Thats what i was afraid of however it didn't show up on my statements until july and then they took 6 weeks to do their initial investigation.

A further few weeks to send me out a copy of the transaction recipts etc.

As far as I am aware it would have been illegal to report my wallet as stolen to the police (the same applys to mobile phones if you lose it but say its stolen for insurance perpouses) if it had just been lost which is what i believed until the end of september when they finally told me that this was in fact a transaction on my old card number and in April.

Andy

Astaroth

It is a difficult one to define the difference between lost and stolen - I had a similar "discussion" with the UK police when I had had my briefcase at the table in the pub but when I went to leave (after only 2 drinks so not drunk) the case was no longer there. Waited until the next day to ask the landlord incase it had been handed in but then went to the police when it hadnt.

According to the UK police, because I didnt actually see anyone take it then it was lost and not stolen... asking them to explain where it went to if it was there one minute and gone the next they simply repeated that it is lost as I didnt see the thief (more likely they knew it would be an unsolved crime and so didnt want to affect their stats).

You say that you went to the police station in your original post. Did they not log your lost/ stolen property and give you any form of reference for the "incident"?

Rafter

Andy,

If the card has been used with a forged signature, whatever the merchant has written is invalid. A fraud has been committed, you reported the card stolen, at most you are laible for the first £50. However you do need some sort of police crime number - and in France I think too since that is where the fraud occured.

R

106rallye

Astaroth wrote:

You say that you went to the police station in your original post. Did they not log your lost/ stolen property and give you any form of reference for the "incident"?

I went to the Police Municipale - which is a branch of the French police, they deal with more mundane things like parking offences and lost property etc. I was with another person who can verify this

I can't really remember exactly but they took my name and details of where i was working in France. My French bank asked me to get a form from them to show them to issue a new card but the lady at the station did not have a clue what the bank was on about.

I don't fully understand the french police system at all but i *think* i would have had to have reported it to the Gendermes if i had been mugged etc for it - therefore this is probably how i would have got a proper crime reference number

Andy

dazbyd

... hmmm .... i'm no expert and can only offer you advice and what I would do if this had happened to me :eek:

... if im reading your post correctly you lost your wallet on 5 April 2006 and this was the same date you cancelled your cards with HSBC ... and then on 6 April 2006 it turns out that a transaction was processed for nearly £400 !!

... so here's the questions I would be asking myself and the bank ...

... 1. Card cancelled 05.04.06. I would understand any amounts processed after this date to be the responsibility of the bank as you have already notified them of your loss prior to the transactions taking place. Read the small print of your T&C for the card in question ... if you have not got them then ask the bank to issue you with them.

... 2. If, and I say if, the transaction was a 'chip and pin' then does the receipt not say 'chip and pin' verified or words to that effect as a UK receipt would ?

... 3. If this was a single transaction for nearly £400 then surely the merchant would have gone for authorisation and this authorisation number should show on the receipt. £400 would be one heck of a floor limit :eek: Have you asked the bank if the transaction was authorised ?? Have you asked them to show proof that this was, as the merchant says, C&P verified ?

... 4. HSBC say this transaction was processed using the NEW credit card number ?? .... strange ?? ... you only cancelled your old card the day before ... how on earth could a transaction take place the DAY AFTER with your new card ?? ... did someone in HSBC personally print your new card and fly it over to you in a 'harrier jump jet' in 24 hours ??!!?? Have you asked them what date they issued the new card ?? ... Have you asked them what date they issued the new pin ??

... 5. Go to your local Police Station and report what has happened. The Police will record this and then in return will give you a crime reference number. Then supply tis number to HSBC and DEMAND they investigate it.

... 6. If this was me I WOULD NOT BE PAYING A PENNY of what they say I owe.

... 7. When speaking to HSBC ask to speak to a manager ... Call Centre staff 'can' be great ... but in most cases they have little power !!

Hope this helps you in some way ... just ask if you have anymore questions

Cheers Dazza

jaws77

The brightside is that this happened on a credit card so at least your not out of pocket. Good luck with the bank though.

106rallye

dazbyd wrote:

... 1. Card cancelled 05.04.06. I would understand any amounts processed after this date to be the responsibility of the bank as you have already notified them of your loss prior to the transactions taking place. Read the small print of your T&C for the card in question ... if you have not got them then ask the bank to issue you with them.

unfortunately I didn't notice my wallet was missing till the afternoon of the 6th - after the transaction had taken place however if they had told me there and then when i cancelled my card (as i think it must have been authorised therefore showing up on my account?) then i could have gone streight to the shop. The money was prob for a pair of skis so they wouldn't have picked them up till the next day i shouldn't think as they have to have the bindings mounted etc.

dazbyd wrote:

... 2. If, and I say if, the transaction was a 'chip and pin' then does the receipt not say 'chip and pin' verified or words to that effect as a UK receipt would ?

Exactly what i said to them - can't see why it would have been signed as well as a chip and pin transaction

dazbyd wrote:

HSBC say this transaction was processed using the NEW credit card number

HSBC have basically told me different information at different times. First time they said the transaction took place in June and that it was not a chip and pin transaction. - Think the person missed the fact that it was an account adjustmant

dazbyd wrote:

... 5. Go to your local Police Station and report what has happened. The Police will record this and then in return will give you a crime reference number. Then supply tis number to HSBC and DEMAND they investigate it.

Do you think they would accept this?

Many thanks for everyones replys so far

Andy