'The argument over student loans could kill the next generation's...' blog discussion

oskie

Also, another thing which puzzles me (and may have a simple answer) is, the government are boasting that many people will not have to pay this money back. So how is the Student Loan Company going to make up their losses then? With interest for those who do pay it back? Why would they set off lending much more to students knowing they wont get it back? If the taxpayers are contributing to this (to the student loan companies loss) then surely the system is no different to what it was before, only the students get the debt in their names? Im sure I have missed a trick here, but I am also sure the answer will be confusing.

crveni

What we are seeing is a partial privatization of the university system. Eventually in the future the government will stop funding the universities completely. Saying to Universities charge what you like. For the Russell group this is perfect as there dubious selection procedures can continue unabated. Others will downsize or shutdown due to market forces.

The biggest change is that Universities have change there attitude that you should be grateful of 3 hours a week contact time and lectures that make no sense. Just because you do the research it does not mean that you are able to present it to undergraduates in a way the can be easily understood. New roles need to be developed were teaching not research become more important. However the problem is in the academic world you have to publish or perish. Teaching is not the main priority, so unless you figure it out yourself you may end up doing a degree without a basic understanding of it. The courses taught need reflect to what the real world requires.

I did a Computer Science degree and learnt more in my work placement year than the 3 academic years.

kudosdude

Can someone explain to me why we "should" pay for our University education?
Why is free child education considered a good thing?
If University Education were to be based on merit I very much doubt we would be having this discussion.

ScarletBea

kudosdude wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why we "should" pay for our University education?
Why is free child education considered a good thing?
If University Education were to be based on merit I very much doubt we would be having this discussion.

Then where does it stop?
What makes the university degree the end? Why not Masters as a "right" too? And PhD?

I am so sad about this thread, because despite what Martin wrote, people still come over and say they can't afford their children's fees - you don't have to pay them!

And why is it bad debt?
You accept that to buy a home you need to go into debt, and pay every month, so why not university, that you don't even have to pay until you're earning a minimum amount?

I read somewhere about the idea of different years costing different amounts (so we'd still get the 27k, but instead of 9/9/9, it'd be 12/9/6), this is another good idea that might make people think twice before applying to *just any course*.
On the other hand, I really don't agree with "good degrees (nurses, doctors, etc) being free and the others paid: would you like a doctor that just chose to be one because he couldn't afford to go into economics, for example?

I really think we should change the way that every child is automatic assumed to want to go to university, when a technical vocational course, or any other more practical courses, could be so much more adequate.

kudosdude

Scarlet:
Am I correct in thinking that you believe children should pay for their education too? If not why not? Honest question.

baldylocks_2

ok i understand the new proposals in paying the money back but i find it ridiculous that as a second year student myself i STILL havent received all of my first year loan and am missing a large chunk of my second year loan too.

if they cant get a very simple payment correct over 2 years then i lack faith in the system to calculate repayments correctly too.

They seriously need to sort themselves out and get loans out to the people who are in desperate need of them before trying to change it all again.

MSE_Martin

sunalwaysshines wrote: »

The key point here is that a three year course would currently cost about £9K in tuition fees and will now go up as high as £27K. For somebody from a poorer family who cannot contribute towards this - it is a huge prospect and will prevent talented people from going to University.

Your points are valid but minor compared to this.

I can understand that those who benefit from higher education should pay for it, but shouldn't that be done as a basic principle of the tax system? you earn more - you pay more. The problem is that the government need to save money NOW so this is not going to happen

I do cover this.

The point is a poorer family DONT have to pay £27,000. A graduate does and only if they earn over £21,000 - if they earn less they DONT have to repay it. If they earn more they have to repay it as a portion of their earnings - the more they earn the more they repay.

My issue is with the structure of that repayment not the fact it needs making.

pollyhelen

It may be a side issue, but one that is totally relevant, and that is that the Student Loans Company is not currently fit for purpose. This is reported every year in the media, but is also the experience of many who are trying to make payments, overpay, underpay, close accounts. It creates an unnecessary barrier for those who are trying to be responsible to a debt they have incurred.

I feel quite strongly about this and have a number of different stories from my peers all in dealing with the SLC.

popadom

I think some students are annoyed due to the fact some unis are substandard, with tutors late, little help ect...would you want to pay these people up to 6,000 more?

brat673

kaz0705 wrote: »

I know a few of the key students from UCL involved in the protests, including the one outside Top Shop on Oxford St this week. I think, overall, the protests are about more than just tuition fees but I think this blog has been incredibly helpful for explaining issues to Joe Bloggs.

The 'bad' debt that the government is so keen to get future generations into is terrifying, especially, I'd imagine for many DFWs like me who know only too well the implications of bad debt.

On Facebook the other day, unrelated to the student fees debate, a friend posted that she's just worked out that it'll take her 200 years to pay off her student debt. Another friend commented that it she finished uni 10years ago and is still paying off hers.

The point for me is not necessarily the fees- I understand *some* need to be levied and I never had a problem with taking my loan. IT's the fact that those on the lowest wage that can start repaying will be doing so forever. Those, like some of my friends, who go to work in the city or as solicitors, will be able to pay it back fairly quick, incurring minimal interest.

Those, like my boyfriend, who has yet to reach a threshold to start paying his back are simply incurring more and more interest as each pay day passes.

It's terrifying how much social workers, for example, who need a degree but are poorly paid, will end up owing yet they are a vital part of our society.

I work with vulnerable children and regardless of reassurances of the help they will receive, when you don't necessarily have a home to return to during the holidays (fostering provisions stop at 18), the additional barrier of unending bad debt would simply be the final nail in the coffin. I know young people who have taken GCSEs early and achieved As and A* and other that have 10 A*. Just because they are vulnerable children does not mean they do not deserve a chance to have a degree. Yet these fees, combined with the current hurdles they face, would- in my opinion- reduce the already low figure of looked after children who attend uni (9%) to the figure it has been for decades before the Labour government (1%).

Oops- bit off track there.

In summary- great blog!

Uni Tuition should be funded from General Taxation even if a penny or 2 is put on Income Tax. We should all benefit from their education. What next, pay for apprenticeships? Before fees are levied Jack Straw , 2 brains Willets should pay for their Uni fees!!!!