buying house no plan perm extension built 1974!

hex2

I have been quoted £60 by my solicitor, was told £200 by estate agent. Not a huge amount in the scale of things, if my buyer asks I will pay it even though the work was done ten years ago.

adam14675

we bought a house 5 years ago and part of the title deed was missing, so we didn't know what restrictions there were on the property. Far from similar to your situation, except for the bit about indemnity policy. The quote from our solicitor at the time was somewhere around £200 for indemnity to cover defective title deed - ie the unlikely combination of circustances where the title deed turned up at a later date AND something that had been done to the house was against restriction AND someone bothered to complain AND the complaint was upheld AND...

Ian_W

It may be in a conservation area NOW but it's unlikely it was in 1974! Conservations area, areas of outstanding natural beauty, grades 1 & 2 listings etc have in the mainly sprung up and multiplied in the last 30yrs as English Herritage has grown stronger and local councils have looked to protect the past.
Ring the council and ask what date the area was designated as a conservation area. I'll bet it was post 74 - in which case no-one could knock down your kitchen, as it is one of the features being conserved!!

Debt_Free_Chick

missbee wrote:

Yes, this '4 year' or 7 year' as suggested has appeared on a few forus I looked at before posting my question. It seems odd that my solicitor hadn't heard of such a thing - and indeed the council person I spoke to didn't either. I'm guessing they just want to cover their backs, just in case!

Amazing how solicitors can throw up "problems" like this without knowing or even bothering to find out what the law states.

As your solicitor what s/he thinks of Section 172 of Town & Country Planning Act 1990 as, to me at least, it seems to state that an enforcement notice can only be issued within four years from the date of the breach i.e. the date the development occurred.

HTH

sham63

For an extension, planning law states that if it escapes enforcement action for four years, it may not then be the subject of such action.

This means that after four years any extension is immune from enforcement action. This also applies to Conservation Areas. The seven year timescale mentioned in previous posts is an urban myth.

I suggest that you speak to a planner in the development control team of your local council to confirm this. They are generally very helpful (but always very busy!)

missbee

thanks to everyone for your very helpful replies! The link to Town and Country planning act is useful - I will just keep my fingers crossed that it all works out okay!

Gold_Shogun

missbee wrote:

... an extension built in 1974 with no plan permission or building regs ...

I've spoken to my solicitor for advice and they say that there are three basic options: 1- the sellers contact council to inspect property and give consent - at a cost to seller and possible LONG wait (which we, of course, may risk losing our buyers, who are first time buyers very keen to move quickly). 2- they get an 'indemnity insurance policy' BUT my solicitor says they probably won't go for this as a cost to them and will probably be advised not to as work done so long ago. 3- we, and they, do nothing!!

Your solicitor's something of an idiot, as he should readily know about option 4 ... Pop in to to your local Council and ask for an application form for a "Certificate of Lawful Use or Development" (C.L.U.D.) ... This is a simple process that irrevocably establishes the legality of the subjects under Planning Law once & for all.

It is available for any development (building-works OR "change of use to a dwellinghouse") that occurred more than 4 years ago (or 10 years for any other change of use), and all that is required is a simple statement of fact (such as a written statement by the owner or an interested party) that the development is more than 4 years old (although it helps if you have other evidence such as OS maps / old deed-plans / etc) PLUS a declaration that "No formal enforcement action" has been taken within the past four years prior to the date of the application.

Unless the council can physically disprove the CLUD application facts, they MUST by law grant a CLUD (they CANNOT refuse it), and this is legally regarded as "Absolute Proof" of legality under UK Law.

Please note, however, many councils "feign ignorance" of CLUD's upon first enquiry as it is one of the few pieces of Planning Legislation that aids the Public instead of the Council. :cool:

Personally, I would :-
Step 1) ... Use the "ambiguity / uncertainty" as a bargaining tool to reduce / minimise the purchase price of the house,
then
Step 2) ... Add a small clause to the contract requiring the owner (or his solicitor) to provide a written confirmation / statement to the effect that the extension was erected circa 1974.
then
Step 3) ... Immediately apply for a C.L.U.D. after completion (using Step-2 document), KNOWING it couldn't legally be refused.
then
Step 4) ... Lie back, think of England & St. George, and bask in the extra value/profit I had just added to my purchase. :cool:

Hope this helps
Cheers
Bob

seven-day-weekend

sham63 wrote:

For an extension, planning law states that if it escapes enforcement action for four years, it may not then be the subject of such action.

This means that after four years any extension is immune from enforcement action. This also applies to Conservation Areas. The seven year timescale mentioned in previous posts is an urban myth.

I suggest that you speak to a planner in the development control team of your local council to confirm this. They are generally very helpful (but always very busy!)

Excellent advice which I totally agree with and would only add that you don't need an indemnity policy, all you need is a letter from your Planning Department stating that even if the extension required planning permission in 1974 it is now by virtue of its age exempt from enforcement action.

Use to write them all the time when I worked in Planning Enforcement.

I personally wouldn't bother with a CLU at this time as it costs money and takes time; the letter should satisfy your solicitor and mortgage lender. However, you might want to do it later to regularise the position so there won't be the same problem if you come to sell.

missbee

Thanks again to everyone for your help. As I expected the vendors have said they're not willing to pay for an indemnity policy due to the age of the extension. I mentioned the '4 year' policy to my solicitor who didn't exactly confirm this but said 'as it's been up for more than 10 years the council can't do anything.' Funny that our mortgage lender has not queried it at all - so no problems with obtaining the mortgage money. I will get onto the development control team to see if I can get something in writing!