PV Solar panels

khris210

A little while has passed since the PV panel push began, so I thought I'd see if there were any stories about to help people uncertain as to whether to take the plunge. I'll start with mine. I started on the internet and contacted four companies (one, a large home improvement company, didn't bother to turn up) I was visited by 3 reps, only one of whom had any enthusiasm for the product. The others had a script and no knowledge. I investigated the promising one by going to their website, which gave me some confidence, and by checking a local job. My job involved some roof repairs, which complicated matters, since either the solar co. has to do the repairs when the scaffolding is up, or you'll have to arrange it yourself, which may involve 2 lots of scaffolding, and expense. The solar company did it in my case but will no longer, the logistics are too complicated for them. At this point I'll do the maths for you. I had 12 panels rated at 2.4 kw, delivering in theory just under 2000kwh p.a. The installation cost £10500. If theory is met by practice, 2000kwh @ 41.3p =£826 p.a. Add to that the cost of the electricity saved, which is 10p per unit (N-power fixed) which I don't have to pay for, £200, equals £1026. Minus the interest lost on the £10500 = x 2.75%=£289 (not mentioned by any of the reps!). Therefore the net gain of having the panels will be £737 p.a. paid quarterly in arrears. This will nearly pay for my heating oil. The panels were fitted the day before yesterday and commissioned at about 5pm. Therefore it has been operational for 1.5 days (as I write this at 3pm) and has delivered 5.9 kw. The weather is mixed sunshine and snow!. I would not go down the route of free panels, I consider it a tie on the free sale of the house. £737 on £10500 is 7% at the moment, and is likely to rise as fuel prices rise. It might pay to extend your mortgage. We were lucky to have some capital earning the aforementioned 2.75%. so were prepared to consider it a permanent investment. The company I used was PV Solar UK,(with whom I have no connection etc). We had some problems caused by the roof repairs, but the actual installation went smoothly, and so far it seems to be delivering even at this time of year. I am in Norfolk, which has quite high light levels, so I'm optimistic.

SailorSam

Khris, you said you were worried that getting free panels may hinder any future sale. Did you speak to anyone like an estate agent to get an opinion if the panels have done anything to increase the value of your house.
I'm not far from Liverpool so probably worse off for light conditions but use gas, so probably i'd imagine cheaper than oil, at least for the moment. Although i've no plans to sell, i am 57 so need to think about my age if it's a long term investment, hopefully i want be curling-up-my-toes in the near future though.

HappyMJ

The 2000kw saved doesn't always get used whilst the PV panels are generating it so you won't see the full saving on your electric bill. It seems to work if you are in all day and using electric but most electric tends to be used in the evening for lighting, tv, cooking and so on. If you can try and time the washing machine to come on when the sun is at it's highest in the sky. Then when it's cycle is finished time other things to come on and complete their cycles. I'd also suggest a slow cooker set to cook during the day so that it can cook your food for free and keep a small load on to use all the generated electric.

Cardew

Khris,
There are several threads on the 'Green' forum on MSE on solar PV and your experiences would probably be better posted there. Some people have had their systems for several years(before FIT) and there is a thread giving the outputs of various systems in various locations,

Just a couple of points on your figures. You won't be able to use all the 2,000kWh you generate in the house; so £200 is an over-estimate. If you have an electricity meter that presently runs backwards - it will be changed.

On the other hand you will get an assumed 50% of your generated output considered to be exported(regardless of how much you export) and you get 3p/kWh for exported electricity.

khris210

Hello Sailor(!) I spoke to an Estate Agent, but their view was that it would depend on the area, and the prospective buyer. I prefer not to take the risk. I'm 67, but my partner is much younger than me, so I'm thinking more about her future than mine! On that subject, a house doesn't have a fixed retail price, so when it's sold, you can just take the cost of the panels back out again. After all, prices are negotiable anyway, usually downwards, as we all know. But buying a house, having some free power and an income has got to be a plus, surely?

khris210

Thanks to Happy and Cardew. I'm not sure you understand how this thing works. (At least I hope it's you and not me!) It doesn't matter whether I use the juice I generate or not. I get paid for what the instalation produces, which is in theory 2000 kwh. Now if I use juice when the unit is not producing I pay the going rate (at the moment 10p per unit), worst scenario is if I used all grid power I would pay £270 a year, which is my bill at the moment, get £886 (including the 3p) from FIT which still leaves me £616 in credit. Cardew, is it possible to copy or shift this to the Green forum?

Cardew

khris210 wrote: »

Thanks to Happy and Cardew. I'm not sure you understand how this thing works. (At least I hope it's you and not me!) It doesn't matter whether I use the juice I generate or not. I get paid for what the instalation produces, which is in theory 2000 kwh. Now if I use juice when the unit is not producing I pay the going rate (at the moment 10p per unit), worst scenario is if I used all grid power I would pay £270 a year, which is my bill at the moment, get £886 (including the 3p) from FIT which still leaves me £616 in credit. Cardew, is it possible to copy or shift this to the Green forum?

I understand how it works very well.

You are correct that you get the FIT of 41.3p for every kWh your panels produce regardless of where that is used. - so if 2,000kWh pa then £826.

It is also true that any of the 2,000kWh you consume in the house is worth 10p per kWh to you as you won't be using mains electricity.

However you won't be able to use all that electricity because at times of high production(around noon in the summer months) the panels will be producing more than your house needs.

The Government have recognised this and allow you to claim that 50% of your generated electricity is exported and you get 3p/kWh for 1,000kWh. You get that regardless of how much of your generated electricity you use in the house. So £856 plus the value of any electricity you use.

You can get an export meter fitted and then get 3p/kWh for the actual number of kWh exported. So if you exported 1,200kWh then £36 + £826 = £862

The point being made is that there are many people who have had systems fitted for years and experience show that even 50% used in the house is difficult to achieve. So your maths crediting yourself with £200 for using all 2,000kWh in your house is not realistic.

To move any input to the 'Green' forum, you just need to cut anything from this thread and paste it into a green thread. However I suggest you read some of the threads first.

HappyMJ

Well I can guarantee you will not reduce a bill of £270 down to £70. It's impossible.

Don't forget depreciation. These things and the FIT scheme have a life of 25 years if you use 1/25th of that every year you lose £420 of the original £10,500 each year until it's worth nothing in 25 years.

So my calculation is the £862 plus a possible £50 in electric savings less the £289 in lost interest (or what for many would be a finance charge) and less £420 of depreciation and you have a tax free profit of £203 per year for 25 years. A 50% return on investment which is then a 2% interest rate each year.

Or, you could just put the £10,500 in the bank and have a taxable £289 of income each year and still have the £10,500 in 25 years.

Or, you could draw down £527 per year from the original £10,500 each year so that there is none left in 25 years.

khris210

I take the point about depreciation except that I don't expect to be here (this house!)in 25 years, and hope to get most of my money back when I sell. My point about flexible house prices stands. I'm concerned about the amount of generated power I can consume though. I shall have to wait and see. Thanks for all your advice.