RPI to CPI Early Day Motion 1032

Ripoff_2

Goldwing1 wrote: »

Sorry but I don't agree. EDM 1629 is a con in that it allows CPI to be used for the next three years.

That gives CPI a credibility it doesn't currently deserve.

Also, I believe the 70mph speed limit and income tax were both "temporary" measures.

What worries me is that EDM 1629 now allows divide and conquer to rule. To me that means that both will fail and allow labour to claim that "they tried".

There are risks I grant you that but this new EDM and another one EDM 1625 which both require MP's signatures are the best option we now have and it will be up to us all to hold the Labour Party to account on this issue. The legal challenge has not gone away and all this keeps this subject very high on the political agenda.

EDM1629 has a better chance of being heard and should be supported. CPI we all know is flawed and not fit for purpose but the Coalition, though they know they are wrong on this are digging their heals in and only the force of people (US) and the labour party stands any chance of them seeing sense. We need to get this policy reversed and if this EDM does that then fine, if not we carry on fighting no matter what because we can not afford not to. As I have said to my MP, this issue will be toxic to both the Tory and Liberal Democrat parties and, it will NOT GO AWAY.

It's up to US to make sure we battle on no matter what happens until RPI is restored, by any means we can, and if that means using EDM1629 or EDM1625 then so be it.

Goldwing1

I'll go with EDM1625 but I still maintain that EDM1629 is suicide and EDM1032 is the sensible way to go.

JamesU

StevieJ wrote: »

Prospective changes were confirmed and approved by vote.
What does that mean?

If you read #888 carefully, Steve Webb makes a big issue of the fact that retrospective changes to accrued rights will not happen. But they will be prospective. So rights accrued to the date of change are according to RPI but anything going forwards (prospective) by CPI. As the switch to CPI was agreed to in the vote, so were the prospective changes. Hence why I said prospective changes were confirmed (by Steve Webb) and approved (by vote). The whole concept of differentiation between prospective and retrospective changes to accrued rights is flawed though, they are just accrued rights. But SW pulled it off as part of his act.

Full comment from Hammond was this though: Indexation of pensions in payment is an established part of pensions legislation. The Conservative Party has no plans to change the current index-linking of public sector pensions in payment. We agree with the view that the right to indexation of pensions already accrued is part of the accrued pension rights and those rights will be protected."

It was sufficiently ambiguous in the latter part of the statement (already accrued) to allow for SW to move on with discussion of prospective changes and pull it off.

JamesU

StevieJ

In payment means to me, already being paid.

JamesU

StevieJ wrote: »

In payment means to me, already being paid.

If your pension has RPI hardwired (by scheme/trust deed etc, discussed in posts much earlier) possibility of no change, otherwise I guess CPI is most likely. Lower CETV calculations on final salary pensions (divorce settlements) were suspended last Summer and reintroduced before Xmas, adjusted in line with CPI. BTW, #888 was purposefully posted to be satirical with emoticons to demonstrate SWs orchestration and how it effects people. It is word for word from the transcript apart from right Hon StevieJ. Blatant and arrogant reasoning for legislative theft, but it is not really funny at all of course.

JamesU

StevieJ

My pension will remain RPI I have been informed

Ripoff_2

All, due to a slight confusion over the new EDM's 1629 and 1625 I have decided to re-activate this thread and add to it EDM1625 which leaves EDM1629 as a seperate thread. JamesU and I do not want to marginalise the private sector from this debate and as EDM 1629 refers specifically to the public sector, It could have that effect.

EDM 1032 and EDM 1625 are generic EDMs that fit better together and thus I hope you all agree with our reasoning.

Therefore, please use this thread as before and use EDM1629 thread to make comments etc specific to the public sector.

Use this thread as the generic discussion and comments forum.

Having said all that, ALL the EDM's require support and it still needs you ALL to write again to your MP's asking them to support the New EDM's 1629 and 1625 along with EDM 1032.

Sorry for any confusion caused and I hope this meets with everyone's approval.

regards

Ripoff

Wolstan_Dixie

Well now chaps (and chapesses), I got my pay slip for my Local Government Pension Scheme pension today. It informs me that my pension will increase by 3.1% in April ie the September CPI.

As I understand it the LGPS rate should be linked to the State Pension rate? And the State Pension is being increased by RPI one last time this April?

So a double betrayal

Ripoff_2

Wolstan_Dixie wrote: »

Well now chaps (and chapesses), I got my pay slip for my Local Government Pension Scheme pension today. It informs me that my pension will increase by 3.1% in April ie the September CPI.

As I understand it the LGPS rate should be linked to the State Pension rate? And the State Pension is being increased by RPI one last time this April?

So a double betrayal

I think an awful lot of people are going to discover what you have now discovered, and I hope they get angry, very angry. As you say a double betrayal but it's actually worse than that.

There is going to be a triple betrayal in 2012?

Why? Well in the budget the other day, George Osborne slipped in at the end that Tax Allowances are going to be linked to CPI from 2012. So that means the money that they have given in increased tax allowances in the last budget will be clawed back by this change. £1.2bn given in increased tax allowance last year and £1.1bn clawed back by the new link. So this BIG deal about taking people earning below £10k out of tax is nothing more than a further con trick and deception when you take inflation and the new linking of allowances to CPI into account.

This change is actually a STEALTH TAX INCREASE for ALL of us, pensioners and working people alike, now people should be getting angry!

But it's actually even worse than that because your tax allowances and your pension will only go up by CPI indexing but your "overall" costs will probably go up by RPI, depending on your individual spending pattern.

Can it get any worse, well yes it can actually because would you also believe that as your tax allowances and pension are indexed at CPI, Government Duty increases are linked to RPI, so Petrol, Beer, wines, and Spirt increases along with road tax etc will all go up next time by RPI.

Your pension and allowances will be falling over time but the amount you are going to be asked to pay over the next few years for inflation rises will actually be far greater than you have recieved to protect you from inflation.

One of the main duties of the Secretary of State when deciding on what uprating to use is to increase pensions in line with "general level of prices" how on earth can that duty be achieved if increases are linked to CPI but other bills and duties are linked to RPI when we know that there is a constant difference of at least 0.8%? The increase in prices is bound to be higher, this is yet another betrayal and deception by this Coalition.....What will this do to your standard of living and your ability to pay your way?

And one final point, WINTER fuel allowance is also being reduced by £100, so for some another reduction, Nick Clegg didn't even know that the Tories had done this in this Budget! he thought it was actually going up?, so where does that leave the older pensioners?

Cold and poorer next year and the year after that and the year after that and so on.

All this is why this change of indexing from RPI to CPI is so very WRONG and the EDM's should be supported to put it RIGHT......YOU can not afford to let this Coalition get away with this betrayal, deception and theft.

RichandJ

snip

Ripoff wrote: »

......YOU can not afford to let this Coalition get away with this betrayal, deception and theft.

snip

The betrayal, deception & theft Ripoff were perpetrated by the Labour Party & their union masters in allowing a structural deficit to build up whereby HMG this year has had to borrow over £16 million pounds an hour to keep the bloated public sector/welfare state going.

As usual the Tories, unfortunately in coalition with an economically illiterate party this time, are now having to put this right.

I don't necessarily agree with all they're doing, but, I suspect, from a diametrically opposite political viewpoint from you.

The public sector net borrowing requirement for 2011/12 is now estimated at £122 billion. Oh well, that's only 13.9 million pounds to borrow every single hour. It has to be paid back. The annual interest on Gov't debt is estimated to approach £65 billion by the end of this Parliament. That exceeds the current defence budget by, I believe, something like £15 billion.

There is no money left.

Your march today, even before it is hijacked by the usual rent a mob crowd bent on violence and destruction, will achive precisely nothing. Except for the circling police helo currently annoying me.