RPI to CPI Early Day Motion 1032

KMK

In "The Guardian" this morning, the leading article states that at the first pensions negotiating meeting with unions early in March, Maude and Alexander refused to reconsider the change from CPI to RPI, leaving some unions arguing that the talks are meaningless. Depressingly, it looks like a done deal. And I suspect that even if there is a change of government, they will keep the CPI link as the dirty work has already been done for them.

I am no longer a union member since my retirement. I have written several times to my Lib Dem MP but he no longer even replies. He has refused to sign the EDM.

Today's report seems to sound the death knell for public sector pensions. Why can't they apply the same ruthlessness to the bankers' bonuses? So much for "all in it together".

By the way, will MPs' pensions lose the RPI link or will we find that an exception has been made in the small print?

MEY_3

Andy_L wrote: »

It is, that's why we elect them. However any agreement has to be voted on my the members.

Always asuming its true - which it probably isn't. The head of Unison(?) was on the Today program this morning with Lord Hutton and was at great pains to avoid saying they'd accepted the CPI/RPI switch

I disagree. Whether there is index-linking or not is within their remit but not the type of linking itself. That is why the Parliamentary Acts don't specify the linking. So they shouldn't be using the RPI-CPI aspect as a bargaining tool. But as I said. If they do their membership should give them a kicking. They, the union leaders should also realise that it is actually current and imminent pensioners who are affected. Future pensioners may well see their pension rights up for discussion again further down the line. Who says it will remain where the Hutton Report leaves it?

MEY_3

Quote KMK: "In "The Guardian" this morning, the leading article states that at the first pensions negotiating meeting with unions early in March, Maude and Alexander refused to reconsider the change from CPI to RPI, leaving some unions arguing that the talks are meaningless. Depressingly, it looks like a done deal. And I suspect that even if there is a change of government, they will keep the CPI link as the dirty work has already been done for them."

It is not a done deal. Unless legislation is introduced the issue is reviewed each year in Pension Orders.
While I can empathise with your feelings over government change, that is why it is vital to continue to call the various political parties to account constantly. It may be tough going but this battle has only just begun. The next round is the 26th March rally followed by the May local elections. Currently the Labour Party are against the RPI- CPI switch. Remember that detail alongside local issues at the ballot box.

It is a great shame that the issue of RPI has become a political football - but not unexpected when we see the lack of integrity the expenses scandal exposed.

viridens

MEY wrote: »

I disagree. Whether there is index-linking or not is within their remit but not the type of linking itself. That is why the Parliamentary Acts don't specify the linking. So they shouldn't be using the RPI-CPI aspect as a bargaining tool. But as I said. If they do their membership should give them a kicking. They, the union leaders should also realise that it is actually current and imminent pensioners who are affected. Future pensioners may well see their pension rights up for discussion again further down the line. Who says it will remain where the Hutton Report leaves it?

Hear hear.

But I maintain that this appears a fairly minor issue to working union members. Not worth a kicking.

MEY_3

Well, Viridens, I used to give them a kicking over anything that I thought was morally wrong, big or small!

viridens

MEY wrote: »

Well, Viridens, I used to give them a kicking over anything that I thought was morally wrong, big or small!

-Which is why you and I are here

Andy_L

MEY wrote: »

I disagree. Whether there is index-linking or not is within their remit but not the type of linking itself. That is why the Parliamentary Acts don't specify the linking. So they shouldn't be using the RPI-CPI aspect as a bargaining tool. But as I said. If they do their membership should give them a kicking.

I don't follow you here. If I understand you correctly you'd be happy for them to negotiate away indexation totally but nothing inbetween? eg adopting the 5% cap legal minimum or moving to CPI, even if agreeing to that change allowed improvements elsewhere or indeed alowed the schemes to continue to remain open?

MEY_3

Andy L - This is a complex issue. I'm not happy for them to negotiate away anything, but let us get back to the essence of this. RPI was introduced to reflect the ongoing loss of value of pensions It may not be perfect and it is acknowleged that pensioner inflation is likely to be higher than RPI even. The only thing that should ever happen to RPI is that it is made more accurate if possible. If that's not possible it should remain. What is not acceptable is that it is changed to a measure that in spite of government claims is less accurate.

My view is that I don't see how any union rep can support CPI by accepting it for their members. Either the pension is intended to have its value protected or it is not. The union representatives are in a bind I admit, but they have to remember they are representing not only future employees to some extent, but current employees who joined at various times on various conditions, members facing retirement in the immediate future who may have been employed for many years, and whether they like it or not, to some extent pensioners who were part of that union until retirement (and those who were not) and who may be affected by any agreements they make, but have no say.

If the unions want to change for example trust deeds, it should only apply to new employees or those that accept it on an individual basis (i.e. not on a majority one). They should resist linkage to CPI as bargaining chip. RPI should remain as the minimum for those who had good reason to believe they were entitled to it and current employees should be tied to the relevant Parliamentary Acts (as current pensioners have now discovered they are), and a cross-party commission should take the advice of experts and create a new index that fairly and accurately portrays the said pensioner inflation.

Once a union accepts CPI they are causing a seismic shift under the feet of every state pensioner and public service pensioner, and probably private pensioners and prospective pensioners throughout the land and allowing indexation to be a political football - a game of football they can only lose.

viridens

Much media coverage of the Hutton recommendations and public sector pensions today. Did anyone hear a mention of the RPI/CPI issue? I have listened and watched news reports on radio and tv all day and didn't.

I did see and write down a BBC TV six-o-clock news 'expert' answering a 50+ viewer's question about the future risk to his PS pension:
"Everything accrued up until now will be protected" he was told. How many pensioners did that falsely put at ease?

MEY_3

Yes. The BBC News coverage that I saw was deplorable and not at all even handed. Have you see Robert Peston's blog? Absolutely shameful.

Things got a little better on Newsnight but not by much. The unions will need to raise their game significantly because if they ignore the RPI-CPI issue it may cost them support of some natural allies over the Hutton Report.