RPI to CPI Early Day Motion 1032

Haybob

This link may prove interesting:.

http://www.rss.org.uk/uploadedfiles/userfiles/files/Letter_Jill%20Leyland_Sir%20Michael%20Scholar_22%20Feb%202011%20.pdf

Linton

Haybob wrote: »

This link may prove interesting:.

http://www.rss.org.uk/uploadedfiles/userfiles/files/Letter_Jill%20Leyland_Sir%20Michael%20Scholar_22%20Feb%202011%20.pdf

The letter is about CPI being a poor index for inflation linking. ...

Yes they may well have a point. But if I am right RPI is even worse. An argument on which is the best index is surely a valid one, but to say that RPI should be used instead of CPI because it tends to be higher doesnt sound like a convincing contribution to it.

Ripoff_2

Linton wrote: »

But even a CPI increase in pension would have more than matched my increased costs. Why should an inflation linking system provide even more than that?
QUOTE]
Linton, in periods of low inflation then the difference would be less and therefore CPI may well have matched your increased costs but it would not have given you the increase you were entitled to at RPI. That said, in periods of high inflation the variance is far greater and the increase per year far less therefore in periods of high inflation you may well find that an increase at CPI will not cover your increased costs.

But this is not the issue, what people want is what they paid for and believed they were going to get, RPI indexed pensions. They do not want to run the risk that over time their pension increases have not kept up and they have to buy cheaper goods to make ends meet. This is a drive to the bottom, using CPI indexing with high inflation i.e. High RPI. drives people to the bottom.

By the way the utility companies use RPI for their increases per year so using the lesser CPI for increases for pensions as others use RPI for goods and services, one can easily see how pensioners will not be able to pay for those goods and services, another drive to the bottom. It has been proved that inflation for pensioners is far greater than even RPI but we are not asking for that we are asking for the re-instatement of RPI indexing, that's all.

Ripoff_2

Linton wrote: »

The letter is about CPI being a poor index for inflation linking. ...

Yes they may well have a point. But if I am right RPI is even worse. An argument on which is the best index is surely a valid one, but to say that RPI should be used instead of CPI because it tends to be higher doesnt sound like a convincing contribution to it.

We are not asking for RPI because it is higher we are asking for RPI because that is what we were all told and advised that we were linked to. RPI has been used for pension indexing for the past 38 years and there was no reason to change it other than this Government saying CPI is a better measure of pensioner inflation, but it has been proved it is not. People have been getting RPI increases and now they suddenly find they have been switched to the lesser CPI, that is wrong.

viridens

Linton wrote: »

From my experiences I dont believe you have anything to worry about. The important thing is that one's pension more or less rises in line with experienced prices.......The "basic" expense items I monitor (eg food, utilities, insurance,council tax) are very much the same year on year,...

Do we live in the same country? My experience is that utility bills, insurance payments, grocery bills etc have all risen dramatically, especially recently. Although prices have increased at 4-5% throughout the last year, the freak post-recession low RPI in late 2009 meant no 2010 pension increase. Consequently, PS pensions are still at their April 2009 level. The next rise will be based on the lesser CPI.

A change of index linking to CPI is clearly not for the benefit of pensioners. It is a Government cost-cutting plan. Government obviously expect the RPI/CPI difference to be significant, otherwise why bother?

P.S. I have just now received my 2011 water bill. This is 9% higher than 2010.

BoxerfanUK

Linton wrote: »

An argument on which is the best index is surely a valid one, but to say that RPI should be used instead of CPI because it tends to be higher doesnt sound like a convincing contribution to it.

Its not just about RPI being higher, but more about the fact that RPI has been used for the past 38 years and if the government want to change what has been a tried and trusted method to another 'more accurate' method then they should do proper research and come up with solid justifiable reasons for a new method evidenced and supported by qualified statisticians.

They have not done that!!! Furthermore, other than government ministers, no qualified person (to my knowledge) has come out in support of their statement that CPI is a better measure than RPI!!! On the contrary................

Bottom line, this is all about an easy way of saving a few more billion and has nothing whatsoever to do with being a fairer or more accurate method of calculating increases.

The reason the government are taking the easy option of changing to CPI rather than doing lengthy and proper reseach into what might be a better 'new' method instead of both CPI AND RPI is they are petrified that proper research into this might even end up costing them more, not less.

Shudder to think they would want to pay pensioners more, god forbid, that scenario might see a typical pensioner couple buying TWO cream cakes a week, one EACH instead of having to share. Ok I'm being flippant, but hey............

ordinaryman

Greetings everyone,

I've been following all your comments with interest and often with admiration and I am well aware that issues, especially about money and more especially about pensions, are rarely straightforward and certainly never simple.

However, my compadre Ripoff is completely correct about the RPI/CPI issue. It is basically about morality - right and wrong! This Coalition Government is desperate to save money being paid in pensions and benefits to those who have rightly earned, and are entitled to them according to the contract agreed with them upon retirement. For 38 years Public Sector Pensions have increased annually according to the Retail Prices Index and we have all been led to believe that this will continue.

What the Coalition have done is to cynically and deliberately rob us of our rightful entitlements in an atmosphere of moral panic about the economy. Worse still, they pretend that actually they have a better measure of inflation in CPI and that we should be satisfied with this.

The most offensive part of all this, is that they treat us as though we are fools and money-grabbing knaves when, in fact, most public and private sector pensioners could buy and sell these parliamentary charlatans who would not recognise such things as morality, integrity and honesty if they came up and hit them!

We have earned these pensions and the annual upratings by RPI as part of our Terms and Conditions and any half-decent government would defend these rights not seek to annul them. I have no doubt that we are in an economic and financial crisis but, the answer can never be to retrospectively punish those who have given a lifetime of public service and employment by cutting their pensions. We need to get the lawyers onto this. This kind of measure is not worthy of the kind of government we associate with the United Kingdom and we should all be making damn certain that politicians who pursue such policies are never elected again!

Goldwing1

Coming back to last week's Parliament lobby, I now have a list of most of the speakers. Apologies if there are spelling mistakes and the missing names but here goes;

Clint Elliot, Chief Executive of National Association of Retired Police Officers and V-P of Public Service Pensioners Council.
Nigel Dodds, DUP, Belfast
Hywel Williams, Plaid Cymru, Arfon
Kevin [missed the surname] Deputy Secretary NUT
Frances O’Grady, Deputy General Secretary TUC
Rachel Reeves
Nick [Kirby?], from PSPC
(MP Dr) Eilidh Whiteford, Banff and Buchan, Scottish National Party
MP Teresa Pearce, (Lab) Erith and Thamesmead. Work and Pensions Select Cttee member. Will table the forthcoming EDM.
Man from National Pensioners Convention, missed name entirely
Roger Turner, Occupational Pensioners Alliance.
An MP from the DUP – didn’t get name
A spokesman from the Armed Forces Pensioner organisation.

People may also be interested in http://www.pensionsworld.co.uk/pw/article/pensioners-join-forces-1237721

Prof_as_was

Calling Old Slaphead - where you been, man? Waiting for you to explain to Linton, in your own pithy way, that private, individual inflation experience is a lifestyle choice, with absolutely no general application or significance.

Ripoff_2

Just to let you know that 122 MP's have now signed the EDM

LAB = 99 LD = 4 CON = 0 OTH = 19

Quick reminder to remember the 26th March for the Mass TUC Rally in London for anyone who can make it.