Advice wanted re: Council and refusing to move us???

pimento

I had a friend who had five children (along with her and her husband) in a two bedroom 18th floor tower block flat.
The council said they weren't overcrowded. In the end they moved out and bought a place.

Ulfar

I also have to point out that your child has a home with his mother, he does stay with you but I think you will find the council will not count him when it comes to calculating the size of property you need.

Wee_Willy_Harris

Ulfar wrote: »

I also have to point out that your child has a home with his mother, he does stay with you but I think you will find the council will not count him when it comes to calculating the size of property you need.

Whilst I'm not suggesting this is the case here, it is certainly not unheard of for a child to be passed between parents in order to advantage their individual housing application. But I'm sure that such an upstanding chap as the OP would never consider that. Perish the thought.

jonuk7

Well seems that yet again the forum has had its people offering good advice then the stupid comments as a prime example "Wee willy" i really cannot be bothered going back through it all but i received the letter from the MOD when i moved into this property, HOWEVER when i first approached my LA for housing due to leaving the MOD they took all the details and said they needed to "reference my last landlord" been the MOD, now they would of told them there and then there was an outstanding amount of arrears as i found out very soon after also i left NO forwarding address so they clearly got this from my LA when they did any reference checks, why my son was living with me at the time and for the following 12 months really has no concern of anyone on here but thats the way it was and the fact he still stays with me probably more than half the week says ALOT, and NO i dont get the Child benefit for him but money the money doesnt matter as long as i see him and spend time with him!!!

Also just to cover the majority of ppls replies at no point did i say I want MOVING NOW, i simply asked the question of they have said IT MAY NOT be possible to apply for there list where do i stand? yet i get bombarded with replies of oh your not overcrowded no kids dont live with you that is totally irrelevant if we were to just look at even been placed on the LIST! having since spoken with numerous people and departments within the housing sector here, every single person has said in my area kids of opposite sexes are NOT allowed to share a bedroom once one of the children reaches 10, if you own your own home or rent privately this is then placed upon the parents discretion but through the hosuing authority in my area it is not ALLOWED and that is THEIR words not mine!

As for the initial leaving the MOd i was a perfect example of the whole gate guarding crap and despite me going to see the LA as soon as i had my last day of service i was told "Sit tight as they cant kick you out on that day"!

Ok i left it a few weeks and got a letter from the MOD asking me to leave by x date, again took this to the LA and was told i didnt have to move out as i was not been "evicted" simply asked to leave, so again LA washed their hands of it for a few more weeks, Then i finally got a court letter with a hearing of may i think it was, went to the hearing explained i WANTED to move out asap but the LA kept telling me to wait, so what does the judge do he awards me an EXTRA 1-2 months. Then finally get an actual eviction date from the court, take this to the LA and they STILL turn round and say come back the day before the eviction day and we'll sort it out, Low and behold i go in the day before and suprise suprise i get told i can have x place as of Tomorrow when the eviction actually happens. Now for 12 months i was in a property i knew i was not entitled too, but i simply couldnt get out, i didnt have the money to go private and certainly not to buy, and the LA did NOTHING until 1 year later and i actually have a eviction letter despite knowing full well i needed to be out. and at no point in the 12 months did ANYBODY say i was now having to pay rent not even the court letters claiming for rent or court costs!

tealady

Forgive me if I got this bit wrong but you say there are empty properties in the same block and people are also underoccupying.
Ha ve you
1) Asked your LL if you qualify for the empty property
2) Asked any of your neighbours if they will swap with you.

However it could be a case such as my friend had. A tenant demanded to have an empty property on their street (they would have had the points) however when their advisor checked the previous tenant had used their "right to buy", so the property was't actually available.

System

I don't understand why the rent arrears built up. I know from being recent ex-forces/ex MQ and staying on in a MQ after leaving that you get sent a bill each month. You had no excuse not to be aware of it. The housing people are hot on irregular occupancy because it is money that they can put in their own pocket and don't have to hand over to MoD. The rent for irregular occupancy is a lot lower than either private or council rent.

If you used the build up of arrears to force their hand then I have absolutely no sympathy for the situation you find yourself in.

Wee_Willy_Harris

jonuk7 wrote: »

Well seems that yet again the forum has had its people offering good advice then the stupid comments as a prime example "Wee willy" i really cannot be bothered going back through it all but i received the letter from the MOD when i moved into this property, HOWEVER when i first approached my LA for housing due to leaving the MOD they took all the details and said they needed to "reference my last landlord" been the MOD, now they would of told them there and then there was an outstanding amount of arrears as i found out very soon after also i left NO forwarding address so they clearly got this from my LA when they did any reference checks, why my son was living with me at the time and for the following 12 months really has no concern of anyone on here but thats the way it was and the fact he still stays with me probably more than half the week says ALOT, and NO i dont get the Child benefit for him but money the money doesnt matter as long as i see him and spend time with him!!! I did answer this point in my post, had you been "bothered" to read it. It sounds as if the LA accepted a DUTY to house under the current Homeless legislation. As such, the arrears would not have been regarded as a barrier. However, they have now discharged that duty and you are no longer homelessm so the rent arrears ARE taken into account in the same way as they would be for anyone else.

Also just to cover the majority of ppls replies at no point did i say I want MOVING NOW, i simply asked the question of they have said IT MAY NOT be possible to apply for there list where do i stand? yet i get bombarded with replies of oh your not overcrowded no kids dont live with you that is totally irrelevant if we were to just look at even been placed on the LIST! having since spoken with numerous people and departments within the housing sector here, every single person has said in my area kids of opposite sexes are NOT allowed to share a bedroom once one of the children reaches 10, if you own your own home or rent privately this is then placed upon the parents discretion but through the hosuing authority in my area it is not ALLOWED and that is THEIR words not mine! You asked what the legal position was, which has been answered. The LA's POLICY may be not to HOUSE people into overcrowded conditions, which they didn't. However, the natural expansion of families once housed is dealt with by way of priority "points" on the housing list, in much the same way as your medical points. That's why they HAVE points, to reflect housing need and infer a "reasonable preferance" to those in highest need.

As for the initial leaving the MOd i was a perfect example of the whole gate guarding crap and despite me going to see the LA as soon as i had my last day of service i was told "Sit tight as they cant kick you out on that day"!

Ok i left it a few weeks and got a letter from the MOD asking me to leave by x date, again took this to the LA and was told i didnt have to move out as i was not been "evicted" simply asked to leave, so again LA washed their hands of it for a few more weeks, Then i finally got a court letter with a hearing of may i think it was, went to the hearing explained i WANTED to move out asap but the LA kept telling me to wait, so what does the judge do he awards me an EXTRA 1-2 months. Then finally get an actual eviction date from the court, take this to the LA and they STILL turn round and say come back the day before the eviction day and we'll sort it out, Low and behold i go in the day before and suprise suprise i get told i can have x place as of Tomorrow when the eviction actually happens. Now for 12 months i was in a property i knew i was not entitled too, but i simply couldnt get out, i didnt have the money to go private and certainly not to buy, and the LA did NOTHING until 1 year later and i actually have a eviction letter despite knowing full well i needed to be out. and at no point in the 12 months did ANYBODY say i was now having to pay rent not even the court letters claiming for rent or court costs! The LA didn't do NOTHING, they re-housed you the very day you became literally homeless. Seems reasonable. I'm also surprised that you expect the LA to have been aware of your rent arrears from day one, but not you. If, as you state, there was never any mention of arrears or rent liability "and at no point in the 12 months did ANYBODY say i was now having to pay rent not even the court letters claiming for rent or court costs!", how do you expect the LA to have known from the first day you approached? "they would of told them there and then there was an outstanding amount of arrears as i found out very soon after".

Have you tried contacting one of the ex servicemens support groups? It's clear from this and other posts that you are struggling with civilian life. They may be able to assist.

squinty

jonuk7 wrote: »

1) Can they use the arrears as an excuse despite them been paid AND despite them being larger when they offered me my property im living in now through them?

Yes they can. The Homlessness Act (2002) makes it clear that councils should not have a blanket ban on people with rent arrears. In this case it appears that when you were homeless the arrears were of secondry importance - but now you are in reasonable accommodation there is no need to overide this.

As another issue at your current repayment rate of £5 per month it will take over 25 years to clear this debt. You may want to try one of the forces charities to see if they can help

jonuk7 wrote: »

2) With it been Legal that the children need seperating (Ok only 6yr old and 4yr old now) can they still refuse to move us?

Yes they can. As WWH has said the rules on overcowding in part X of the 1985 Act are not at all generous. You are not overcrowded by this definition.

Do not get this confused with either the councils own rules on allocations (ie no children of a certian age will be expected to share a bedroom at time of allocation) or the councils point system (where addtional points may be allocated for children sharing)

jonuk7 wrote: »

3) Now my partner is pregnant too can they refuse even though the bedroom already has 2 beds and toys etc there is no way i could get a cot in there aswell and my bedroom has the wardrobes etc to give the kids "play space"

See above.

jonuk7 wrote: »

4) With a Dr writing and advising i need to be moved and then their OWN Medical advisors agreeing hence putting me in Group C of there 3 medical groups can they say no?

Yes they can say no. All councils have thier own policies so it it very difficult to give specific advice. Group C sounds like a minor medical priority not an urgent need.

jonuk7 wrote: »

5) if they do write and say no were not housing you do i stand anywhere at all?

You are aware of the rent arrears being a barrier to being able to move. You needs to get these reduced ASAP

You could also look for other options such as a move into the private sector. Ask if the council have an apporoved list, or are aware of landlords who do not need a deposist.

jonuk7 wrote: »

6) if they say "NO" would it be worth speaking with Local MP's/newspapers etc with 3 kids in a 2 bed 2nd floor flat?

Not really. The council seem to be following thier own rules.

jonuk7 wrote: »

Any before people start im not expecting to be moved NOW but i would like to know i am on the list (The points id receive would put me near the top according to their guidelines) so to know within the next 6 months or so i would be placed in a suitable house is what i want now a letter tomorrow saying here is your new keys etc..

Very unlikely.

And...there are a number of people who have used this thread to try to give you realistc advice based on your circumstances.

The outcome you are looking for seems unrealistic. You may want to try being less angry with people who point this out, and instead focus some of this energy in trying to actually resolve you situation.

puddy

Im probably going to sound very cruel and it really isnt meant this way, despite my initial irritation at your stance OP,,, but Im not sure that you find it easy to understand things that have been said to you. You were given excellent advice by WWH, but you chose to mock it despite him answering your exact questions. You chose to ask the same questions again even though this has all be spelt out

You are coming across as quite angry (slightly difficult to read too because of your spelling and grammar - and I know mine is no great shakes) but people are giving you information about your situation which you may have to learn to accept, you sound like you're arguing against what are usual conditions. I would agree with the suggestion of getting some help from somewhere for ex servicemen, you need help to adjust to real life. I wonder if this is why your arrears built up, because you either didnt pay the rent out of spite or you couldnt adjust

a point though - you have 4 years until you are 'officially' overcrowded (although as has been noted above, this is unlikely to get you moved as a priority even then) why not pay the debt off during that 4 years, then your debt wont make a difference to your request?

it would be less than 1k a year to pay off, thats about £80 a month, see if your partner can get a part time job or bar work or something, if you are only working part time you can share the child care between you

puddy

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

Whilst I'm not suggesting this is the case here, it is certainly not unheard of for a child to be passed between parents in order to advantage their individual housing application. But I'm sure that such an upstanding chap as the OP would never consider that. Perish the thought.

and if the mother in this case, agreed to such a scheme she would of course have to give up any child related benefits as the child wouldnt be living with her anymore and im sure this wouldnt go down well