Why not instigate Criminal Proceedings?

JohnPeard

Al_Mac wrote:

Next working day = bolloxs, day after maybe, but wouldn't get processed until the end of day processing.

Al, this so-called 'clearing period' is unique to the UK in europe. Why?
O.K., some delay when moving paper, but not with a computer.

As a matter of interest, I worked on the first commercial computer in the world (showing my age, I know) - this was for processing payments and accounts - and the processing time was less then that it is (or we are told) now.

grumbler

JohnPeard wrote:

..However, I have evidence that I am right.

What kind of evidence?

...this clearing delay is only in the UK - not in continental banks.

And what about free day-to-day banking and free transfers?

inmypocketnottheirs wrote:

Interestingly, I recently received a payment from Malta. Customer paid on Monday, money in my account Wednesday morning. Quicker than making an online payment from one UK account to another.

Do you want to tell that the transfer did not cost anything to the sender? We have the same day CHAPS transfers in UK that cost £20+

Dead_Eye_Jones

Banks are normally pretty transparent with their rules, just stick to them in the first place and you'll never have to pay any charges. Ive not paid a fee to a bank my entire life, not because I have loadsa money, but because I can organise. Soz, but I believe in personal responsability, life is tough...

inmypocketnottheirs

grumbler wrote:

What kind of evidence? And what about free day-to-day banking and free transfers? Do you want to tell that the transfer did not cost anything to the sender? We have the same day CHAPS transfers in UK that cost £20+

Can you be sure about that? The customer faxed the transfer to me, it shows a charge of £5 and other fees of £1.99. Cheaper than £20+ for a CHAPS, maybe not free, but a darned sight cheaper than a UK bank would charge for making an overseas payment I am sure. Perhaps you know better .......

inmypocketnottheirs

Al_Mac wrote:

Most of Europe has only gone instant recently. Not because it was illegal, but because governments made them. The UK banks are currently working on it.

Spain has worked this way since at least 1990, Portugal since 1991 and Greece since 1993.

Wonder why it is taking 'Great' Britain so long to catch up with these other countries? Let me think .....

Rafter

The government (for a change) is already on the case with this one.

Link visa and others are looking at updated all the banks transfer systems so that transfers work just like ATM cash machine withdrawls - ie they happen instantaneously and there is no right of recourse (in otherwords the machine can't ask for your money back if it subsequently discovers you don't have enough funds).

Although I realy sympathise with your situation, you have to think about other scenarios in the banking system particularly fraud. If someone stole your internet log on for example and transfered your money out, would you not be grateful for those 3 days delay in the system which means that the fraudster doesn't immediately have cleared funds they can run off with?

Despite what the daily mail would have you believe, the banks don't just have these policies to squeese a couple of days interest out of you or to boost their fees.

I agree that banks are despicable in their fee charging on current accounts and interest calculation on credit cards but sometimes you just have to plan ahead and remember to allow a few days grace for bill payment and transfers to clear.

My own view is that regular or secure transfers such as salary payments, bill payments or receipts from major companies should clear immediately.

However, I'd rather the banks had a few days delay for payments made to new payees on my online banking system for example, so if my details have been compromised there is more chance of recovering the money.

R.

Mikeyorks

JohnPeard wrote:

It is become self-evident to me, in my dispute with the bank, that they are operating processes which are deliberately intended to maximize the revenue generated by fees and charges ...........

.........The reality is, I have now discovered, is that when funds are transferred on-line, they are received by the the bank at the start of the next working day.....................

..................Therefore, the clearing delays are clearly artificial. What this means is that the banks are not only acting unlawfully in these situations, but are acting criminally – in that they are defrauding customers.

Why don’t we consdering make an allegation of fraud to the police?

The problem is that when someone develops a paranoia that they are being hard done by ..... commonsense and rationale .... simply evaporate?

So telling you that it does take 3 days, no matter whether we all believe that is Dickensian, to transfer money between different UK banks isn't going to do it for you? Because the money you 'transfer' - between days 1 and 2 - is only a pseudo credit. So there is no artificiality - let alone conspiracy! The real money - to give you cleared funds at your transfer point - comes from the overall inter-Banks settlements that's done between days 2 to 3.

You don't seriously believe that the Banks transfer each credit individually? They summate it all - then settle between themselves - which is when you get the cleared funds.

Now Mr local policeman isn't really going to understand that. More to the point - he's unlikely to want to. But if you want to make yourself look silly - then you go down and (attempt to) file a formal complaint. Just don't incite everyone else to look equally stupid.

And .... if you don't believe me (and you don't sound as though you will) on settlement delays. Then the CEO of BACS certainly knows more than either of us regarding the intricacies of inter-bank clearing. And what needs to be done to put GT stripes down the side - whilst retaining a system that's robust, reliable and safe for purpose. The italicised bit is mine :

'The end to end process takes three days because of the bank processing and security procedures. It's those elements that need to be speeded up to reduce the clearing cycle.'

Bacs' King says the slow pace of change is partly due to the significant costs involved for the industry, and partly because industry-wide agreement is needed before changes can occur.

'It will be down to individual banks to make those changes and make their decisions about whether that is appropriate and when it is appropriate,' she said.

Lloyds TSB says the current Bacs process is embedded in numerous legacy systems and processes, which means any modifications require a significant number of IT and process-related changes.

The company says a large number of systems would have to be changed, including transaction processing, accounting, online, ATM and telephone banking channels, and charging systems, as well as interfaces between systems.

Bacs' King says the changes will differ from bank to bank, but will involve integration and processing issues.

'Banks won't have so long to manage the processing around the products. It's the same quality and surety as before, but all at a much faster pace. Therefore all the risks of that process need to be thought through,' she said.

JohnPeard

Dead_Eye_Jones wrote:

Banks are normally pretty transparent with their rules, just stick to them in the first place and you'll never have to pay any charges. Ive not paid a fee to a bank my entire life, not because I have loadsa money, but because I can organise. Soz, but I believe in personal responsability, life is tough...

Yes, but we are all human and do !!!! this up sometimes, and yes, we should expect to pay for our mistakes - but the whole point of much of this debate is whether the 'fines' are reasonable?

A £60 fine for doing 40mph in a 30 mph limit may be reasonable.
A £500 fine for 31mph would not be. Then, if you can't pay the fine, you pay another £500, and so on, until such time you lose your home.

Also have some thought for those who get into financial troubles through no fault of their own - for example when one of your customers goes bankrupt owing you a lot of money - as happened to me.

You say that banks are 'transparent' - but sadly that is not my experience, or I would expect, in the experiences of many of this site's contributors.

My original point, starting off this thread of discussion, is that large organizations may not only be acting unlawfully, but criminally.

How many of our banking institutions profited from the slave trade? Large companies can be corrupt, if their power is not challenged.

This is not 'paranoia' or 'conspiracy theory' as someone else wrote - but if there are injustices - and surely nobody can deny that there are not in the banking system - we need to challenge them.

The banks have beaten some people to the ground financially through the snowball effects of charges, penalties and interest.

Ah, then but if you read the small print it does say ......

inmypocketnottheirs

Al_Mac wrote:

Because they were made to. Why do people in the UK think everything is a conspiracy

More likely because the banks here have been profiting for decades by keeping us from our own money.

Why do people in the UK just roll over and play dead?

inmypocketnottheirs

Al_Mac wrote:

I wrote a an answer to that. But lost the will to post it. As I realised you had the moral high ground

??? Just because I am sick of being had over by the banks.....???

If that's the moral high ground, I refer to my post above yours Al Mac!