Public services: Are we getting value for money?

sarahg1969

If the NHS were privatised, it wouldn't be the world's third largest employer for much longer. There'd be plenty of employees in non-jobs out on their ear.

Funny that it can employ so many, and yet we have a shortage of doctors, nurses and dentists.

Esqui

Yes.

*lengthens message to allow posting*

Mankysteve

geordieracer wrote: »

But the NHS wastes billions of pounds every year and hospitals are still in debt all over the country. This is unsustainable.

so what are your ideas on making it work and getting good value for money then oh wise one?

Were stuffing from a recession, while it had many causes was of the biggest factor where US house foreclosures.

The biggest cause of people in the US not being able to pay there mortgages was because of health care costs.

If that not enough of reason of the NHS I don't know what it is. Not to mention is moral standpoint of making money from peoples suffering.

How about the trains, there a prime example of how privation fails. Trains dont run on time and there more government pay more in subtenancies to them then ever occurred when the railways where in public hands.

What the public sectors is need is decent management who are not scared to sack unproductive staff, to be cut throat and actually know what there doing not trying to build a political career.

Mankysteve

darkpool wrote: »

!

Private industry does have morals, I work in the private sector and I always consider the environment/ society etc when i do things.

Only because
A) there are legal minimum standards you have to comply to
Certain individuals find it fashionable with the organisations
C) its good publicity.

Just take one look at how multi national corps act in areas of world where there not held back by laws/ far enough out of western world majority views proves that's Private companies don't have morals.

A private companies job is to make money for its shareholders nothing else. They only give good customer service/Be envirometal friendly when its liable to increase there market share and thus profitably or government forces them to.

People in this country are free to choose to receive private treatment if they wish anyway. If you don't like the NHS you can pay health premiums and go else where.

All of the argument presented against the NHS so far just arguments for better management strategies not for privatisation.

Gavin83

molerat wrote: »

The public sector workers who are moved over to the private sector usually get a culture shock as they are actually made to work for a living. No more 5 sick days extra holiday at the end of year, no more sitting around from 4.45 with coats on waiting to go home at 5, no more sending e-mails to all and sundry during work hours.

I have to pull you up on this because frankly it's wrong and quite insulting. I work in the public sector and work as hard as any of my friends in the private sector. I am allowed to send no more than a couple of emails a day and take maybe one private phone call a day, which is the same as any private sector people I know. I generally get a couple of emails a day from my girlfriend who works in the private sector. I don't get to sit around doing nothing, Im constantly busy, have to justify every penny we spend, don't get pay rises or bonuses and the sickness policies are the same as any other company seeing as they are law, but I've only had 2 sick days in the past 4 years.

The only real advantage I see to working in the public sector is that Im not expected to work overtime and I get reasonably good holiday.

sleepystar1975

darkpool wrote: »

Private industry does have morals, I work in the private sector and I always consider the environment/ society etc when i do things. At the end of the day the "private sector" is really just composed of individuals. Most people I know are moral and I'm sure they usually act for the greater good.

I think the competitive environment in private industry is good for the consumer. for instance if you get bad service from a supermarket you go to another chain. You get business evolution, the companies offering the best prices/ services do well. While the bad companies go bust.

You get bad service from the NHS and your ability to improve the situation is limited.

Sorry, I would never use private healthcare after my DHs experiences.
1. He was seeing a neurologist for violent headaches, when his post-appointment summary letter came through, it spoke of Mr [his name] being a long distance lorry driver (Dh is actually a metallurgist) suffering with nerve symptoms in his hands (nope, his hands are fine, it's his head!), and how Mr [his name] is also juggling his wife of 30 years (well, I am only 34 years old now, I am sure there are laws about that) and his young mistress, both the wife and the mistress are pregnant by him (I was going through fertility treatment - definately NOT pregnant)....the letter went on like this! When we complained, we got no apology, no investigation, just a "good job you don't know the other person then!"
2. He went in for shoulder surgery. Was told nil-by-mouth from midnight. He was a tablet controlled diabetic, no advise was offered to him on how to take his pills for that day. We dropped him off for admission at 7am, and he then realised he'd left his CPAP machine at home (he has sleep apnoeas), the nurse insisted I must go home and fetch it. So I took DD into school, went home, unplugged the CPAP, packed it in to its bag, drove back to the hospital, to find he'd just gone down to theatre. So I left the CPAP with the nurse. Guess what, during his stay, it sat there behind the desk in it's bag the whole time - so what was her insistance about fetching it all about then!
He went to theatre at 10.30am, and returned at midday, where he was offered a sandwich and cup of tea, which never materialised! So he asked them 3 times through the afternoon, eachtime they said they sort it out, but never did. When DD and I went to visit at 5pm, he was famished, so DD shared her raisins (hmmm, satisfying after not eating since midnight), I asked again about when he'd get this mystic sandwich, and again was told it would be dealt with! When we left at 6pm, I offered to go to the supermarket to fetch him a sandwich, only to be snapped at and told he was getting sorted. So just incase, I left him my bottle of water and a packet of polos, and DD left the remains of her baby strength apple juice and another packet of raisins. Good job too, as they didn't venture into his room till 8pm, where he was finally given one slice of toast!
When he was discharged the next morning, he also realised, not once, the whole time he was in there, did anyone check his blood sugar levels!:mad:

To top it off, I hurt my ankle 10 years ago, so saw someone under Dh's private healthcare scheme, I was told there is nothing wrong. 10 years of pain in this ankle, I saw an NHS doctor this year, who found an old, badly healed fracture! I had the reconstructive surgery on the NHS and am now recovering

NHS everytime for us. We may be overstretched, but at least it gets done!

molerat wrote: »

The public sector workers who are moved over to the private sector usually get a culture shock as they are actually made to work for a living. No more 5 sick days extra holiday at the end of year, no more sitting around from 4.45 with coats on waiting to go home at 5, no more sending e-mails to all and sundry during work hours.

I take offence to that! I have worked in the NHS since 1999, and have never sat with my coat on waiting for the shift to end (most of the time, I work after my shift finishes), the only emails I send are work related, and yes, I am off long term sick now, but only because a PRIVATE doctor misdiagnosed a fracture 10 years ago!

geordieracer wrote: »

But the NHS wastes billions of pounds every year and hospitals are still in debt all over the country.

So much of the NHS funds are wasted by folk making appointments they don't need and not bothering to cancel them. These are often (I said often, not always!) the same folk that then grumble about the state of the NHS. I would love the see a scheme where folk have one chance to miss an appointment, then get charged for any subsequent missed ones!
Of course, this is only a percentage of NHS wastage, but the staff don't taking financial matters lightly.

geordieracer

Mankysteve wrote: »

Were stuffing from a recession, while it had many causes was of the biggest factor where US house foreclosures.

The biggest cause of people in the US not being able to pay there mortgages was because of health care costs.

If that not enough of reason of the NHS I don't know what it is. Not to mention is moral standpoint of making money from peoples suffering.

How about the trains, there a prime example of how privation fails. Trains dont run on time and there more government pay more in subtenancies to them then ever occurred when the railways where in public hands.

What the public sectors is need is decent management who are not scared to sack unproductive staff, to be cut throat and actually know what there doing not trying to build a political career.

well to start with your spelling and punctuation and grammar is rubbish.
We also had people who were getting mortgages way above what they could afford. They didn't have to take them nor any other credit to keep up with the jones' but they did.

The NHS squanders billions of pounds a year because some of the people who work for them don't give a 5hit and keep breaking things(to name but one) and know that it has to be bought again.

trains run more on time now then they did pre- privatisation. You just are looking on when it goes wrong. But without privatisation there would be no 12.50 tickets to Scotland and so forth. And nor would there be any new trains.And the Subsidy that they get is being cut which is leading to higher prices.

The public sector has had many many years of managers who were just the general people in a union first of all and have worked their way up to a good position and now are having to make the harsh decisions. If the union bosses were not raking in more money then the average worker, with perks, then maybe some of us could get with what they are on about. But we don't. Some of us see the fuller picture.


Though myself i don't think the NHS should become privatised i can properly see why people think it should be.

The NHS wastes billions per year and more so since the last labour government came in with many NHS trusts and hospitals in debt by millions.. What is your answer to that.

KME91

DKLS wrote: »

I have never had value for money for my taxs, I pay out yet use hardly any public services.

Do you have a driving licence? A passport? Did you get a state education? do you pay tax? do you have your bins collected? have you ever visited a GP? have you ever had to call the police? Have you ever traveled out of the country? Do you drive on british roads or walk on british streets? Do you ever walk in the countryside? I could go on and on.

You use public services. everyone does. You just don't notice or think about it. when we do our job well that's how it should be.

I take considerable offense at the attitude people have about public sector workers being a bunch of slackers. I work my socks off to make sure I do my job to the best of my ability. I don't go around slagging off whole sectors of workers in the private sector. I do a good job, for poor pay, and the chance to be a political football, a job which is incredibly valuable to the people who live in this country, and just get abuse for it. Why do I bother?

Mankysteve

geordieracer wrote: »

trains run more on time now then they did pre- privatisation. You just are looking on when it goes wrong. But without privatisation there would be no 12.50 tickets to Scotland and so forth. And nor would there be any new trains.And the Subsidy that they get is being cut which is leading to higher prices.

The fact and figures show that trains are more over crowded and less punctually and cost tax payer more than the under public ownership.

Yes i agree the Nhs need better management that doesn't mean we should scrap it all together.

Not that a huge fan of the last labour government but the NHS was much better off under them than the last Tory government.

These cut are purely plain old conservative policy, to hide behind deficit reduction is lie. Something need to be done its true and I don't know the answers to be honest, I just don't like being lied to. I also don't feel thee any political party available at the moment that has proper answers. If you compare the deficit to the GPB the percentage difference has only been smaller than it is now a few times before the end of WW2. Two of those occasions under the last Labour government.

Ps if my spelling grammar is a bit rubbish I apologise but this a web forum not a official document. Not everything in life perfect nor does it have to be.