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Negotiating notice period

2

Comments

  • Tony1979
    Tony1979 Posts: 12 Forumite
    edited 17 November 2010 at 9:51PM
    Yorkie1 wrote: »
    You agreed to certain contractual terms when you agreed the tenancy. The LL is entitled to hold you to the terms of that contract and you have absolutely no rights to expect him to negotiate. If you decide to change your personal circumstances, that is your lookout. Why should the LL bear any risk of financial loss because you have changed the goalposts?

    Well the alternative, if we don't negotiate, is that he doesn't get to show anybody the property until I move out, which will no doubt lead to a loss for him.

    I can hold him to the contract as well as he can hold me. Why should I give up my right to quiet enjoyment, just so he can have continuous occupation, and get nothing in return?

    The reality is that we both have something to gain from negotiating, so what I am asking is what the best way to approach the negotiation might be.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    You have no right to end the tenancy before the 12 months are up. You need to negotiate.
    The LL is unlikely to agree to a specific early date (eg 3 weeks from today, or 2 months), he is more likely to say "I will agree to release you from your tenancy if and when I have an acceptable replacement tenant to take over."

    You need to
    a) explain your wish to leave early
    b) agree to pay rent up till a new tenant takes over (whenever that is)
    c) offer to pay the landlords advertising/marketing/tenant vetting costs etc

    This will show you are being reasonable, and will mitagate the LL's costs (though he still has the additional time and hastle involved in a tenant change-over).

    Landlords manage their (business) budgets by balancing income and costs. Every tenant switch costs money and time (which = more money!). If he's given you a 12 month contract, he is budgeting for a maximum of one tenant change per year (less if you renew).
  • G_M wrote: »
    You have no right to end the tenancy before the 12 months are up. You need to negotiate.
    The LL is unlikely to agree to a specific early date (eg 3 weeks from today, or 2 months), he is more likely to say "I will agree to release you from your tenancy if and when I have an acceptable replacement tenant to take over."

    If that is the case, I will simply find somewhere else where I can tie dates more closely together.

    I must say that I don't quite get the logic. If I tell the landlord that I will only allow viewings if he gives me a definite date, then he has two choices:

    1) Give me the date, then get 3 weeks or so to show prospective tenants and likely get somebody to move in when I leave
    2) Not give me the date, wait until I move out, and then start showing prospective, almost certainly leaving the property empty for a period of time

    It would seem to me that if he takes the first approach we likely both get what we want. If he takes the second option, he almost certainly loses out on rent, and I have to find somewhere else.

    The third option, which I don't think I should take, is that I let him do viewings, and then at some point he finds a tenant. He gets what he wants, by having no gap, but I have no firm date, so I can't give a firm date to move to the next property, and if I do, I likely end up paying double for some period of time.
  • So, YOU want the concessions without risk? Doesn't sound like a fair negotiation to me.
  • So, YOU want the concessions without risk? Doesn't sound like a fair negotiation to me.

    Isn't it a concession to have prospective tenants viewing the property while I am still here?

    The landlord will have to do viewings at some point, isn't it better for him to be able to do them while I am still paying the rent?

    I appreciate all the opinions, but I just can't get over the belief it would be in his interests to show the property while I am still here, than force me to wait until the end of the rental period and then have to do the viewings while nobody is paying rent on the property.

    If we set a date 4 weeks from now, and he believes that he can rent the place within 4 weeks, then he will be fairly confident of not having a gap in the rent. If he thinks it will take him more than 4 weeks, does he really want all of that time to be without rent getting paid?

    The closer we get to the end of the tenancy, the ease with which I can move into the next property increases, and so does the risk that the current property will remain vacant for a period of time.

    It could be that I am missing something from the landlord's point of view, but it would seem sensible to me.
  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 49,914 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Academoney Grad Name Dropper
    The only thing missing in your logic is if the landlord thinks it will be easier to get a new tenant in springtime than leading upto Xmas.

    Also if he budgets and plans for upgrading certain things after a whole years tenancy, you not staying a whole year messes up his plans.

    It also depends on how essential viewings are. There is one house on my road that is rented out, the rest being owner occupied. It is continually let on 6 month tenancies to people having works done on their own house. I know the people that are there at the moment took on the tenancy without an internal viewing and the people who are moving in next week did the same. Its a short tenancy, right location and big house and they have the room plan and pictures taken a few months ago. They are not that bothered about internal viewings.
    I'm a Forum Ambassador on the housing, mortgages & student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
  • Well as a landlord I'd say to you, sorry but your agreement is for 12 months and so that's what I'd expect you to stick to. Or at least the is two rental periods notice for a break clause and that's what I expect you to stick to.

    If you allow viewings and I can find a suitable tenant before then, I'll release you from the contract early. Otherwise, sorry, you keep paying me rent till the end of your fixed term or notice period. Sorry, but I'm afraid that's what you signed up to so you are stuck with it.

    If you want to move out before then as you have found another place then fine, but then what possible reason could you have to prevent viewings if you aren't even living there? It's in your own interests to allow viewings if you are asking the landlord to do you a favour. I can't see your logic in refusing this if you want to move out early. You may end up paying double rent for a period, but to be honest that is your choice, not your landlords.

    I would be quite hacked off if you were my tenant and tried to call the shots like this!
  • silvercar wrote: »
    The only thing missing in your logic is if the landlord thinks it will be easier to get a new tenant in springtime than leading upto Xmas.

    Also if he budgets and plans for upgrading certain things after a whole years tenancy, you not staying a whole year messes up his plans.

    It also depends on how essential viewings are. There is one house on my road that is rented out, the rest being owner occupied. It is continually let on 6 month tenancies to people having works done on their own house. I know the people that are there at the moment took on the tenancy without an internal viewing and the people who are moving in next week did the same. Its a short tenancy, right location and big house and they have the room plan and pictures taken a few months ago. They are not that bothered about internal viewings.

    Thanks. Makes a lot of sense. I do tend to think that viewings would be important, but you could be right. The Xmas thing had occurred to me too. Thanks again, very helpful.
  • Yorkie1
    Yorkie1 Posts: 12,220 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Ultimately you have the right to refuse entry to the property whilst you are in possession of the tenancy. However if I was your LL I would frankly take a very dim view of my tenant's attitude being to hold me to ransom / blackmail me into letting you out of the tenancy so early on in its duration, simply because it suits your convenience and you've decided to put yourself in a difficult position financially by taking on a new commitment which overlaps with existing commitments, assuming I'll be a mug and release you early. That may not be how you see your position but it's how it comes across loud and clear in your postings.

    If your LL will not play ball then you must decide whether to let the new place go or whether to pay the overlap. Will you also need a LL reference for your new rental?
  • Tony1979
    Tony1979 Posts: 12 Forumite
    edited 18 November 2010 at 12:15AM
    Well as a landlord I'd say to you, sorry but your agreement is for 12 months and so that's what I'd expect you to stick to. Or at least the is two rental periods notice for a break clause and that's what I expect you to stick to.

    If you allow viewings and I can find a suitable tenant before then, I'll release you from the contract early. Otherwise, sorry, you keep paying me rent till the end of your fixed term or notice period. Sorry, but I'm afraid that's what you signed up to so you are stuck with it.

    He'd be entitled to say that, of course, but he is the one that will likely have a house standing empty. If he is happy with that, so be it, I guess.
    If you want to move out before then as you have found another place then fine, but then what possible reason could you have to prevent viewings if you aren't even living there? It's in your own interests to allow viewings if you are asking the landlord to do you a favour.

    Why would I be happy to be paying the rent on a property, just so the landlord has income while he lets it again?
    I can't see your logic in refusing this if you want to move out early. You may end up paying double rent for a period, but to be honest that is your choice, not your landlords.

    It would be the landlord's choice not to let me leave early and get the chance to get viewings in return.
    I would be quite hacked off if you were my tenant and tried to call the shots like this!

    Why would you be hacked off? I have contractual rights, and so does he. If he wants the right to show the property, then I rightly want something in return.

    He may well get emotional and want to cut his nose off to spite his face, but I would hope that we could reach a mutually beneficial agreement instead.
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