Horrible underpinning situation post searches. Advice?

prosaver

bryanb wrote: »

Ever heard of non disclosure of material facts?

well they didnt ask

ruggedtoast

The searches state it was "Filled land", but thats all we know.

I'm not convinced the problem is resolved. There are a couple of big old cracks in the plasterwork indoors. Our surveyor said these are "thermostatic", but then he also remarked on upper gable end cracking which he thought could be wall tie failure, and other longstanding cracking which he thought wasnt progressive. Some of which had been repaired a while ago.

None of this was mentioned as serious, but on reflection there seem to be a lot of cracks.

We would need to have a full structural survey done.

I would want a lot off the asking price, and have been told by the EA before, repeatedly if they cant get what they want they will just rent it. Which was one of the reasons we went so high.

I would also want to see the engineers reports from the original problem and talk to the neighbour to find out why it was done and if they have adequate insurance to remedy the problem if it resumes.

There is no reason at all for the neighbour to provide me this information accurately which leads me back to the vendors.

I would have thought the vendor would be falling over themselves at this point to reassure us of the above, but, nothing.

Nor have the vendors so far offered to provide any details at all as to why their house was repaired for movement under insurance.

What am I meant to tell people when I want to sell? "Yeah next door is underpinned and this one has cracks and you can only use Norwich Union but I dont really know why, sorry"?

I would also want some kind of reassurance that the 2 or 3 insurers that would insure the property wouldnt just gouge me for premiums in the future knowing I have no choice but to pay, on a house we are stretching ourselves for already.

We are at the brink of exchanging, have paid all our fees, are being kicked out of our current place, and the thought of not buying it is still looking more attractive than the thought of buying it.

Its putting us off because we do not want a house with this kind of problem and uncertaintly, and would never have got this far if we'd known beforehand.

So fed up with this situation, thought we would be moving in to a nice new property before Christmas and finally settling down. Instead we've been strung along the whole time.

Since yeterdays flurry of calls the silence on the other end has been deafening.

They've wasted our time, wasted our money, havent so far even opened up about what we have found out, are blatantly lying about the leak in their stuopid garage (they've even tried to make an inner shell of now damp plastic sheeting in there to contain the damp for gods sake, its plainly obvious) and are presumably hoping that if they just ask someone to have a look at the ties and keep schtum we'll be stupid enough to carry on.

:mad:

ruggedtoast

prosaver wrote: »

well they didnt ask

Incidentally I just thought I'd address this as a separate aside as I used to have to sell basic insurance policies as part of a job I once did, so I know a bit about this issue.

Insurers, especially bad ones, very often dont ask leading questions outright at the point of sale, this is often a sales strategy because they are happy to accept premiums on policies they wont pay out on. That is primarily what insurance companies are about.

They load the risk back onto you with your agreement to accept small print you probably haven't read.

As far as you're concerned you're covered, you get the peace of mind of a cheap policy and what ever it is you were worried about probably wont happen anyway.

The problems arise when it does happen and the insurer realises that contesting the validity of the policy is likely to be a lot cheaper for them than paying out.

If they can make a credible case that you witheld facts at the point of sale, they will do so and they will not pay out, and its you and your collapsed house, or terminal illness or cancelled holiday against ABC Megacorp and their legal team in court. Its as simple as that.

In the end I refused to recommend our policies as there was so much small print it basically meant the customer was covered for nothing. People who found this out the hard way used to go beserk on the phone at us, get passed through to the underwriters and then get shot down in flames.

Insurance predominantly buys peace of mind, and if you arent getting that because you lied on the policy you arent getting most of what you're paying for.

Janie2008

If I were you I would walk away. When I bought my first house a few years back we had 2 sales fall through, one just before Christmas, losing around £1000 in total. It was very stressful at the time but in the long run it all turned out for the best, we ended up with a nicer house in a better area. There is always another house. You can easily make up the money you have lost by getting a better deal on a house next time so don't let that influence your decision too much. Do you think you will be happy in the house knowing what you now know or will ther be a constant worry at the back of your mind? I thnk you have wasted enough time and stress on this.

dizziblonde

You don't want this house - you can tell from the tone of your posts that you don't want it really.

You're going to be worrying every time a bit of paint chips off or anything about if it's cracking starting, and that's despite the insurance issues anyway. The fact the vendors are being somewhat, shall we put it semi-politely, slippery is also an issue. I'd be walking away, even if it IS financially painful - couldn't deal with the ongoing stress and worry about it all.

Surprised your surveyor wouldn't talk you through it all though - ours was fantastic going through issues in our report bit by bit in first-time-buyer proof terms.

satchmeister

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The searches state it was "Filled land", but thats all we know.

I'm not convinced the problem is resolved. There are a couple of big old cracks in the plasterwork indoors. Our surveyor said these are "thermostatic", but then he also remarked on upper gable end cracking which he thought could be wall tie failure, and other longstanding cracking which he thought wasnt progressive. Some of which had been repaired a while ago.

None of this was mentioned as serious, but on reflection there seem to be a lot of cracks.

We would need to have a full structural survey done.

I would want a lot off the asking price, and have been told by the EA before, repeatedly if they cant get what they want they will just rent it. Which was one of the reasons we went so high.

I would also want to see the engineers reports from the original problem and talk to the neighbour to find out why it was done and if they have adequate insurance to remedy the problem if it resumes.

There is no reason at all for the neighbour to provide me this information accurately which leads me back to the vendors.

I would have thought the vendor would be falling over themselves at this point to reassure us of the above, but, nothing.

Nor have the vendors so far offered to provide any details at all as to why their house was repaired for movement under insurance.

What am I meant to tell people when I want to sell? "Yeah next door is underpinned and this one has cracks and you can only use Norwich Union but I dont really know why, sorry"?

I would also want some kind of reassurance that the 2 or 3 insurers that would insure the property wouldnt just gouge me for premiums in the future knowing I have no choice but to pay, on a house we are stretching ourselves for already.

We are at the brink of exchanging, have paid all our fees, are being kicked out of our current place, and the thought of not buying it is still looking more attractive than the thought of buying it.

Its putting us off because we do not want a house with this kind of problem and uncertaintly, and would never have got this far if we'd known beforehand.

So fed up with this situation, thought we would be moving in to a nice new property before Christmas and finally settling down. Instead we've been strung along the whole time.

Since yeterdays flurry of calls the silence on the other end has been deafening.

They've wasted our time, wasted our money, havent so far even opened up about what we have found out, are blatantly lying about the leak in their stuopid garage (they've even tried to make an inner shell of now damp plastic sheeting in there to contain the damp for gods sake, its plainly obvious) and are presumably hoping that if they just ask someone to have a look at the ties and keep schtum we'll be stupid enough to carry on.

:mad:

Walk. If you don't you will regret ever buying it; Millstone.

millym

"I would want a lot off the asking price, and have been told by the EA before, repeatedly if they cant get what they want they will just rent it. Which was one of the reasons we went so high."

You could always offer to rent it from them while you look for somewhere else...

charles_b_2

OK. The situation you find yourself in is not good. Ultimately though, you have to consider this:

- You are making a huge financial purchase. Probably the biggest single decision you can make which involves borrowing large sums of money and paying it back. Over the period of the mortgage around 2-3 times the money you borrow.

Ultimately, it's about risk and how risk-adverse you are.

You may have spent money on solicitors and mortgage advice and surveys, but that pales into insignificance against the cost of buying a property.

The moment you exchange, you can still pull out, but it will cost you at least 10% of the price of the house to do that.

As you said, you offered way above what you wanted to, are you sure this is the house for you?

Let's be honest, you will get opposing opinions on this forum. What you have to do is look at your situation, and rationally determine whether you can afford to buy this house AND the cost to remedy it's many faults, AND pay exorbitant insurance costs, AND be prepared to maybe having a tough time selling it down the line, possibly loosing large amounts of money / being in -ve equity if you need to move quickly and have to significantly discount the house to do this.

Lots to think about, very large topics to consider, but go back to my first statement- I'll repeat it:

- You are making a huge financial purchase.

Don't let sentiment get in the way of a properly thought out rational decision. It isn't easy, but it's the only way.

It's in your hands what you want to do. Nobody on this forum really knows the true picture, only you, we're all here just trying to offer advice and prior experience.

Errata

If I've understood the situation correctly, the semi adjacent to yours is further down the hill and has been underpinned. This may indicate that your semi is pushing next door's down the hill and why your ties are smashed.

ruggedtoast

I must say I hadnt thought of that. This is what the survey says. Its inconsistent in that in the valuation he goes on to mention cracking which has been repaired, and evidence of upper gable end cracking indicating failed ties, but he hasnt mentioned that in the full version.

I tried calling but its a call centre and none of the surveyors are there.

E4 Main walls
The main walls are finished in brick, approximately 285mm thick and are believed to be cavity 2
construction.
Cavity walls are formed by two skins of brick, block or masonry with a gap between them. The two
skins are held together by wall ties.
There is evidence of a bitumastic damp-proof course to the main walls
There are signs that the property has been affected by past structural movement as evidenced by
stepped cracking to the front and rear elevations. So far as can be seen from this single inspection
the movement appears to be long-standing. I would not expect it to be progressive, beyond
acceptable tolerances.
The brickwork courses are generally evenly laid and adequately pointed. However, there are signs
that the building is affected by corrosion of the ties normally built into the wall cavities (at high level
to gable wall). This is not an uncommon problem. Remedial work is required. See Section J1 -
Risks.
Instruct a competent cavity wall tie contractor to provide a report and quotation for the replacement of
defective cavity wall ties. Condition rating 2

Thanks for the other replies. Especially about putting it all into context. I feel like we have suffered enough already over this.

The thought of still being stressed after we've moved in and walking around our new place nervously looking at cracks or wondering what the neighbours are really going to say about the underpinning when we meet them isnt great to be honest.

Re. renting from them. It did briefly cross my mind, but as we havent had a great experience of the EA and vendor as sellers. Not keen to ask them to be our landlords to be honest.