HELP Loft conversion doens't have planning permission now what...

Poppy9

tifnstav wrote:

Internal works like loft conversions don't need planning permission, they do need building regulations approval though. Thats why planning permission wouldn't be on the search - the Seller didn't apply for it ?

Not true. Our neighbours had a loft conversion to provide 2 extra bedrooms and bathroom and had to apply for planning permission. I know because we had a letter, as did other neighbours, asking for objections.

A loft conversion will require Planning Permission if:
you wish to raise the ridge of the roof.you intend to change the shape of the roof at the front of
the house or at the side if you have a corner house, this
includes adding dormer windows. your property has already been extended using up your Permitted Development Rights. your property is listed or is in a conservation area.your property is a flat or maisonette.


When we converted a sun lounge into a room we contacted the council to see if we needed planning consent. They considered the size and drawings and then wrote telling us we didn't need planning. This letter is kept on file in case we sell.

BobProperty

tifnstav wrote:

I agree you're entitled to ask the question but if you're going to go round tipping off the council about something that can be cleared up with indemnity insurance (paid for by the seller, not by mrsc) then take advice on it and have the options explained to you before making decisions.
maybe if mrsc's solicitor hadn't been snotty with her this wouldn't have cropped up as mrsc may have been more inclined to ask the questions.
In any case, I would have pressed for a clear response to the query if I didn't understand the position.
I'm not an estate agent but i doubt that the lack of building regs would have meant it was worth £10k less, it just doesn't make sense.
By the way bobproperty, how do you do that angry face?

In answer to the first bit, shouldn't the solicitor be doing that and not leaving it to the buyer? And, if they want to take that approach they should have warned their client not to go poking around as they would cover everything? (which it looks like they didn't)
Lack of Building regs means it's at best a store room and not a bedroom, so it can make £20K worth of difference, no problem. The EA has to be careful how they describe it, too. You can't call it a 4 bed house, if it's a 3 bed with loft storage. More importantly, would you want to sleep in a bedroom without the necessary fire precautions and means of escape? There was a lot of discussion on here and other forums about a year ago on the subject of loft conversions.
And all the smilies are on the right in the full "post reply", you must be using quick reply. :beer: :hello:

seven-day-weekend

A loft conversion that does not add anything to the roof height, or have dormer windows that exceed the PD rights (UNLESS the house is listed or in a conservation area) does not usually need p/p (unless it is in a flat).

Even if it did need p/p, if the works have been carried out more than four years ago, they will be exempt from enforcement action and all you should need to satisfy your mortgage provider is a letter from the Council Planning Department saying so. I wrote hundreds of these when I worked in Planning Enforcement.

Building Regulations Approval is a different thing to Planning Permission; the loft conversion would have needed this and you will need to contact your Council's Building Control Department.

mrsc_4

Thank you for all your replies, I wasn't online last night to read them to busy arguing with Hubby over it all.

Basically since we started the purchase I have never spoken to our solicitor until yesterday when the EA (attached to solicitor) personally went into her office and got her to take my call. I understand that she is annoyed that I've trod on her toes over this but maybe if she had responded to our calls and emails we wouldn't be in this situation.

Right now we don't know what to do, do we proceed or do we pull out??? We could still complete on our sale and move in with me parents but this isn't an ideal situation. Hubby is calling EA and solicitor this morning to see what is going on and how this can be dealt with and we want answers ASAP so we cna make a decision. We can't afford to lose £700-£800 we've already paid in valuations and searches but I'm not happy about proceeding with a purchase which doesn't seem right to me!

littlereddevil

I certainly wouldn't proceed and give them their asking price if things haven't been done properly.
You will have problems when you try to sell it.
It is up to them to sort out everything now.

lush_walrus

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

Depends on when it was done. They are time-barred from taking enforcement action after four years.,

I think you may have your wires crossed on this one, that is not strictly true at all, enforcement officers have powers far beyond 4 years. Once something doesnt have planning permission the control passes from planning to enforcement who do exactly that. It depends entirely on the individual case as to whether they enforce that the construction needs to be pulled down or not and to be honest, in this case it is highly unlikely.

For the OP, a couple of questions about the actual conversion, does it have dorma windows or rooflights?

If it has rooflights and is not in a conservation area, then it would not have needed planning permission, but as others have said it would have required building regs.

Have a look at this, it may help you: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1011888239511.html

In the worst case scenario it is possible to apply for planning permission in retrospect as others have said and if I were you I would get the vendor to do it, only if the price you are paying does not reflect the fact that there is no planning permission. If you are paying below the odds for it as it doesnt have permission then I would perhaps do it myself.

But, before anything have a look along the street and surrounding streets (if they are similar properties) and weigh up the odds of getting permission. If there are lots of houses with dormas similar to yours, then there is a good chance the planners will not object.

If it looks good from the street, and you are getting it for a good price, then personally I would go for it and then apply in retrospect. The planning application will cost approx £110 and it should be possible to submit without any drawings.

mrsc_4

Other properites in the street have simular conversions. I don't know how best to explain it other than its a bungalow with a sticky out bit front and back with double glazed windows (sorry for my poor description)

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-8562928.rsp?pa_n=2&tr_t=buy

This isn't the property but its simular but bigger if that makes sense

Thanks again everyone

silvercar

If the windows are not dormer and the roof line isn't altered and your not in a conservation area, in all probablilty you won't need planning permission.

If building regs had been applied for years ago, before the current fire door rules came into force, then they probably would have a building regs cert and you would have no concerns now. If they apply for building regs now then they will have to put in fire doors and probably upgrade insulation etc, so it may not be feasible.

There is no reason why you can't enjoy the house as the present owners do; the you may want to put in a fire door for peace of mind.

If (and I'm doubtful) PP was required, then after 4 years you can't be forced to change anything. This extends to 10 years only for a change of use eg granny annexe, doctor's surgery etc

If your puzzled as to why PP was applied for and then not given; our house had building regs notice applied for cavity wall insulation and then never issued; it turned out on further investigation that the walls are solid and so no cavities. May be similar here, after investigation turned out they didn't need PP.

In summary I would be asking my solicitor, if there is any action that could be taken to prevent me enjoying the house as the current owners do.

Debt_Free_Chick

lush_walrus wrote:

I think you may have your wires crossed on this one, that is not strictly true at all, enforcement officers have powers far beyond 4 years. Once something doesnt have planning permission the control passes from planning to enforcement who do exactly that.

I think it would be helpful to have some more information about this.

I understood that Section 172 of Town & Country Planning Act 1990 applied. And that clearly states that a enforcement notice "may be issued only within the period of four years from the date of the breach" (at the end of subsection 4).

Is there some other applicable power that the Planning Authority has?