Redundancy Process

wildkr

Unfortunatley, I am in the latter stages of consultation.:(

I have a couple of major issues with the way that the whole process has been handled and wondered if anyone can advise if there is anything that I can do about the way it has been handled.:mad:

I have been with the company for 16 years (last 5 years part time). I was first notified of a definite threat to my position in Nov 2009 but official consultation was not started until 15th Sept 2010 due to department re-structure. However during the period prior to consultation I was encouraged to attend meetings to discuss my situation without representation from any other party (I am a union member and consultation was instigated by me contacting my union representative on 1st Sept 2010). During these meetings (prior to consultation starting) I was advised that the role that I am currently doing will be gone but was asked to review my hours/days of work as there was a potential position within the new structure, however since the start of the consultation process this 'new' position has been withdrawn and I was told that my boss had just been 'testing the waters' and he was not able to offer me any other position.

In addition to this I feel there has been a serious breach of confidentiality because a lot of employees are aware of my situation and have been for the past few months (and this has not come from me!). To add to this I feel that for the past 2 years I have been out on a limb and not managed or involved in the dept. as other colleagues have (for example, I have not had an appriasal or pay review for 3 years and have not been invited to European meetings that all other collegues have).

Like I said I am a union member and my rep is involved in the consultation but I feel that the way that I have been treated and the way this whole thing has been handled is wrong, any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

getmore4less

Reading between the lines they decided a few years back they did not want you. The trick is to understand why sop you can fend off any redunancy.

What were the circumstances surrounding you going part time and how part time are you.

If the roles involve considerable expences(eg european travel for meetings) then is part time viable?

Also look like you may have triggered the formal proceess by getting the union involved and if you had kept quiet it might have gone on for much longer.

Have you been raising the issue of not being involved if not why not?

Anyway back to the questions.

IMO if you were officialy(do you have this in writing) put at risk Nov 2009 then thats when consutation started.

Looks like consultation proccess from then may have flaws but why wait nearly a year to question it?

Can't see why your possition would not be common knowllege in all the restrutures I have been in volved in the proposed structure is usualy known so it is fairly easy to see where the cuts will be an who is likely to be going.

Certainly those in the "selection pool" will know and there is often no need for this to be kept confidential and it could undermine any consutation since you need to be able to go to other groups and let them know you might be needing a job.

How big is the selection pool?
If it is just you should there be others?

wildkr

Thanks for taking the time to read and get back to me, much appreciated.

getmore4less wrote: »

Reading between the lines they decided a few years back they did not want you. The trick is to understand why sop you can fend off any redunancy.

What were the circumstances surrounding you going part time and how part time are you.
Due to having my children. I changed roles and now work 3 days.

If the roles involve considerable expences(eg european travel for meetings) then is part time viable?
These are bi-annual meetings, where all European collegues get together for training etc. yet I have never been asked to attend.

Also look like you may have triggered the formal proceess by getting the union involved and if you had kept quiet it might have gone on for much longer.
Possibly yes but felt like I was between a rock and a hard place and needed advice. I delayed bringing in the Union until I felt like I had no other option.

Have you been raising the issue of not being involved if not why not?
Yes but kept getting the brush off from my previous boss (I've had a new boss since May 10)

Anyway back to the questions.

IMO if you were officialy(do you have this in writing) put at risk Nov 2009 then thats when consutation started.
Nothing in writing but then the company are not denying that the threat has been hanging over me so long.

Looks like consultation proccess from then may have flaws but why wait nearly a year to question it?
I have asked on numerous occasions for updates etc. but to no avail.

Can't see why your possition would not be common knowllege in all the restrutures I have been in volved in the proposed structure is usualy known so it is fairly easy to see where the cuts will be an who is likely to be going.
The re-structure has not been announced and as we are still in consultation then nothing is definite yet people know that my position is being made redundant. The people who know have no reason to know, however the people who will be affected have not been advised.

Certainly those in the "selection pool" will know and there is often no need for this to be kept confidential and it could undermine any consutation since you need to be able to go to other groups and let them know you might be needing a job.
There is only me!

How big is the selection pool?
If it is just you should there be others?

That is what I need to bring up at my next meeting - why just me. I work for an international company, within a team of other managers but it is just my role. The company stance is that the area in which I work is being centralised and the majority of my work will be picked up by a team in France.

TEDDYRUKSPIN

Sorry to hear about the above. You were at least in a slightly better situation than me. At least your company had a union representative. My job required me to travel around Europe but due to the recession was made redundant. I was replaced by a german representative. Most of the business was in Germany and it made kind of sense really. Great eh? The cost etc made it viable to recruit others.

Everyone is in a typical situation at the moment. Companies are using the recession to oust out people. For you, as you are part-time, you are an easy target. What can you do? Nothing much really.

If your company has a relocation or priority list, you should get on it. If not, you should start negotiating your redundancy package. As you have worked for 16 years, you should get a decent package. Not the information you want. But this seems the direction.

Companies are starting to let go of all temporary works, then part-time, then any who are in the process of retirement. Next will be the last in and so on.... Vicious circle.

I was on a plane to Chicago, and this director sat next to me. Told me that it was brilliant he laid off all the waste due to the recession. Best excuse ever and the company has been making profit since. Guess what? Told him 'karma' or 'what comes around, come around!'. Ignored him on the 8 hour flight and talk to the beautiful lady next to me instead. What a flight! Coach as well. Not nice.

Phone up ACASS?

jazzyman01

Your post suggests that you are the only one affected by redundancy, if this is correct then there is no set time period for consultation it just has to be enough to be "meaningful".

If you are the only one working part-time and the majority of part time workers are female you may have a slim opportunity for discrimination, expecially if they have made it clear from their behaviour that you had been selected some time ago.

If nothing else it may give you leverage for additional payment.

getmore4less

wildkr wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to read and get back to me, much appreciated.

Originally Posted by getmore4less
Reading between the lines they decided a few years back they did not want you. The trick is to understand why sop you can fend off any redunancy.

What were the circumstances surrounding you going part time and how part time are you.
Due to having my children. I changed roles and now work 3 days.
Has this impacted any other aspects like working late/weekends ability to travel, flexability etc.

If the roles involve considerable expences(eg european travel for meetings) then is part time viable?
These are bi-annual meetings, where all European collegues get together for training etc. yet I have never been asked to attend.
Did you ask why at the time?

Also look like you may have triggered the formal proceess by getting the union involved and if you had kept quiet it might have gone on for much longer.
Possibly yes but felt like I was between a rock and a hard place and needed advice. I delayed bringing in the Union until I felt like I had no other option.
Addressing the other issues would have clarified the company possition on those before forcing the redundancy issue.

Have you been raising the issue of not being involved if not why not?
Yes but kept getting the brush off from my previous boss (I've had a new boss since May 10)
So did you reraise all the previous issues with them immediately
Anyway back to the questions.

IMO if you were officialy(do you have this in writing) put at risk Nov 2009 then thats when consutation started.
Nothing in writing but then the company are not denying that the threat has been hanging over me so long.
see next item
Looks like consultation proccess from then may have flaws but why wait nearly a year to question it?
I have asked on numerous occasions for updates etc. but to no avail.
So there may be an angle for failure to provide meaningfull consultation but that is happening now(its a 2 way process) and since you are still working there is not a lot you can do AFAIK since there are no losses to you as a result of this failure, in fact you have another years service so get a bigger payout.

Can't see why your possition would not be common knowllege in all the restrutures I have been in volved in the proposed structure is usualy known so it is fairly easy to see where the cuts will be an who is likely to be going.
The re-structure has not been announced and as we are still in consultation then nothing is definite yet people know that my position is being made redundant. The people who know have no reason to know, however the people who will be affected have not been advised.

Certainly those in the "selection pool" will know and there is often no need for this to be kept confidential and it could undermine any consutation since you need to be able to go to other groups and let them know you might be needing a job.
There is only me!

How big is the selection pool?
If it is just you should there be others?

That is what I need to bring up at my next meeting - why just me. I work for an international company, within a team of other managers but it is just my role. The company stance is that the area in which I work is being centralised and the majority of my work will be picked up by a team in France.

The last couple of points and the follow on all point to a redundancy and a potentialy valid one unless you want to relocate to france(you could try that and see what they say).

If you are the only one doing the role and there is no overlap I think it could be difficult to create a pool. If there is overlap then you need to be clear who you think should be in the selection pool

The other angle is the business why is it likely to be not benifitial to the company to move this role to the team in france. and if this role why are other roles not suitable. this can build a case they wan rid of you and are making up reasons.

The down side is the others end up with their jobs in France also.

The problem is that relocating a job to another country is an easier reduncancy situation to deal with than a local shuffle, but your other angle is why has it taken so long.

Will the transition require handover and/or training?
If it will you may have another angle to work on.

Having written all this I am thinking that if part of a management team perhaps since having the kids you may have gone off the ball, not been so involved or enthusiastic and letting the situation(no appraisals,meetings etc) go on for so long has just confimed it to the rest of them.

Was the transition to part ime an easy change or did it rub someone up the wrong way.


So I think you have to step back and decide what YOU want, is there a job here or not?

If there is, how do you make that happen, stop the change or another role and be supportive with the change etc.
If not how do you move on again I think be supportive with the change but try to manage the payout to be advantageous, long handovers, PILON even consider trying for enhanced payout based on full time.

Certainly there may be an angle as in the previous post but you have had a year to protect yourself by making the job more yours yet in the end you called in the union.

wildkr

Thanks all, you've pertty much clarified what I've been thinking but just thought there might be something......

getmore4less -
It's difficult to fight the invisible threat, my boss is based in France and the people who are pushing this redundancy are based in Europe. The people who I deal with on a day to day basis in the UK have sung my praises but it's not enough so I don't think there is much else I can do.


Was the transition to part ime an easy change or did it rub someone up the wrong way. I suppose thinking about it yes, my then boss was very supportive but his boss (in Europe) wasn't too happy!



I don't think there is another job available on the same t&c's that I am on so will just have to fight for what I can. Yes I did call in the union as I have never been in this position and wanted some advice on how to proceed.

Thanks again for your advice.

getmore4less

wildkr wrote: »

Thanks all, you've pertty much clarified what I've been thinking but just thought there might be something......

getmore4less -
It's difficult to fight the invisible threat, my boss is based in France and the people who are pushing this redundancy are based in Europe. The people who I deal with on a day to day basis in the UK have sung my praises but it's not enough so I don't think there is much else I can do.


Was the transition to part ime an easy change or did it rub someone up the wrong way. I suppose thinking about it yes, my then boss was very supportive but his boss (in Europe) wasn't too happy!



I don't think there is another job available on the same t&c's that I am on so will just have to fight for what I can. Yes I did call in the union as I have never been in this position and wanted some advice on how to proceed.

Thanks again for your advice.

This might explain some of the issue/delay, in France employment protection* is much better for the employees than in the UK and the Frence side would probably not have much of a clue how to deal with this correctly in the UK.

Allthough waiting for 4 years to start the procces was a long time, they may still be concerned, even though the process is relativly easy if the job relocates to another country.

Is there any UK HR?

Again I think you could have just let this carry on and it would have gone on for ages, the union might not have realised that they could have advised this as an option rather than stir it up and make them take action.

What happend to your UK boss?
He may have been protecting the position up till May when the boss changed to the one in France.


* I know of a French company that paid another company to take on a loss making division since it was cheaper to do that than trying to shut it down due to employment costs.