Overcharged by plumber?

1984ReturnsForReal_2

keystone wrote: »

It is criminal when its fraudulent as it would be in this case.

Cheers

No it wouldn't.

The OP can legally cancel the cheque.

The OP should do a proper evaluation (without bias) of the cost of the job & send the money to the plumber if he will not co-operate.

keystone

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

The OP can legally cancel the cheque.

On what grounds? Job quoted for, quote accepted, job completed, payment made, receipt issued (although OP hasn't answered that question).

The OP should do a proper evaluation (without bias) of the cost of the job

Agree but they should get it done by an independent person and then use that to negotiate with tradesman. I said this right at the top of the thread. If he won't cooperate then Trading Standards.

& send the money to the plumber if he will not co-operate.

who will be quite at liberty to refuse the reduced sum and launch "Action on a Cheque" in the county court and if he does the OP will lose.

Cheers

1984ReturnsForReal_2

keystone wrote: »

On what grounds? Job quoted for, quote accepted, job completed, payment made, receipt issued (although OP hasn't answered that question).

Agree but they should get it done by an independent person and then use that to negotiate with tradesman. I said this right at the top of the thread. If he won't cooperate then Trading Standards.

who will be quite at liberty to refuse the reduced sum and launch "Action on a Cheque" in the county court and if he does the OP will lose.

Cheers

On the grounds that the OP can cancel the contract at anytime up until 7 days have passed since they have been issued with their cancellation rights.

Right to cancel a contract to which these Regulations apply

7.—(1) A consumer has the right to cancel a contract to which these Regulations apply within the cancellation period.

(2) The trader must give the consumer a written notice of his right to cancel the contract and such notice must be given at the time the contract is made except in the case of a contract to which regulation 5(c) applies in which case the notice must be given at the time the offer is made by the consumer.

(3) The notice must—

(a)be dated;

(b)indicate the right of the consumer to cancel the contract within the cancellation period;

(c)be easily legible;

(d)contain—

(i)the information set out in Part I of Schedule 4; and

(ii)a cancellation form in the form set out in Part II of that Schedule provided as a detachable slip and completed by or on behalf of the trader in accordance with the notes; and

(e)indicate if applicable—

(i)that the consumer may be required to pay for the goods or services supplied if the performance of the contract has begun with his written agreement before the end of the cancellation period;

(ii)that a related credit agreement will be automatically cancelled if the contract for goods or services is cancelled.

(4) Where the contract is wholly or partly in writing the notice must be incorporated in the same document.

(5) If incorporated in the contract or another document the notice of the right to cancel must—

(a)be set out in a separate box with the heading “Notice of the Right to Cancel”; and

(b)have as much prominence as any other information in the contract or document apart from the heading and the names of the parties to the contract and any information inserted in handwriting.

(6) A contract to which these Regulations apply shall not be enforceable against the consumer unless the trader has given the consumer a notice of the right to cancel and the information required in accordance with this regulation.

If they have not been issued with cancellation rights it makes your argument of a contract being formed null & void.

It has also in addition been pretty much standard to only mark up a percentage of cost & add a set maximum time for "sourcing" parts.

However, as we are still yet to hear from the OP about what was replaced exactly & how easy it was to do I am still out on my judgement of what is a fair price, unlike others.

So far the OP has got the hour labour & £30 parts wrong & I am just wondering what else they have "wrong".

I can see it being booked as a 3 to 4 hour job (including first visit & him booking an hour for sourcing) & 100% markup on retail prices.

Whilst extortionate I can also see the reasons why a complete conartist may feel its justifiable.

First visit £60 1hr
"Sourcing" £60 1hr
2nd Visit £60 1hr

Parts £35 retail marked up to £70.


That is his pricing.




(you will notice there is no section 5c, I believe this was the exception of solicited traders which was removed. However, I stand to be correct should I have come to the wrong conclusion)

keystone

Under the Doorstep Selling Regulations for goods supplied in an emergency if the client decides to cancel within the cooling-off period, they will have to pay for the work done so far or the goods that have been received.- lifted from the Consumer Direct site as we are into quoting stuff at one another now.

All work was completed and paid for - what you have quoted as regards Doorstep Selling although correct in itself thus cannot apply in this case and the OP has no right to stop the cheque. Stopping the cheque is by no stretch of the imagination the same as cancelling the contract. They MUST pay for work completed and goods supplied in an emergency within the cooling off period which the OP declared it so to be in this thread.

You are correct in that questions have still to be answered, Nothwithstanding that and in my humble opinion, a more correct price for this job is no more than £ 100 at the very maximum.

Cheers

1984ReturnsForReal_2

keystone wrote: »

Under the Doorstep Selling Regulations for goods supplied in an emergency if the client decides to cancel within the cooling-off period, they will have to pay for the work done so far or the goods that have been received.- lifted from the Consumer Direct site as we are into quoting stuff at one another now.

All work was completed and paid for - what you have quoted as regards Doorstep Selling although correct in itself thus cannot apply in this case and the OP has no right to stop the cheque. Stopping the cheque is by no stretch of the imagination the same as cancelling the contract. They MUST pay for work completed and goods supplied in an emergency within the cooling off period which the OP declared it so to be in this thread.

You are correct in that questions have still to be answered, Nothwithstanding that and in my humble opinion, a more correct price for this job is no more than £ 100 at the very maximum.

Cheers

What I quoted was the law. As it stands. Word for word. Directly from the original documentation.

If there is no documentation the cooling off period is unlimited until 7 days following the documentation.

You are wrong mate & I cant help the law.



I dont know about the price. If it was a straight forward job I might charge £60 + bits but I could see it as a £90 + bits or worst case scenario taking off tiles & boxing in, full drain down etc etc quiet expensive indeed.

& as I still do not know the parts & whether they are standard or not, who knows.

keystone

It seems to me that what you are doing old son is providing justification for not paying in the first place not for stopping the cheque which are absolutely NOT the same thing but even that is dodgy ground IMO. Are you making the assumption (which is prolly correct) that the tradesman didn't follow Doorstep Selling Regs? As an aside that would also be committing a criminal offence but as with the fraudulent act of stopping the cheque the likelyhood of the Police being interested is slim.

If there is no documentation the cooling off period is unlimited until 7 days following the documentation.

and as already stated and, indeed highlighted further up the thread, the tradesman is entitled to full payment for work completed and goods supplied up to the point of cancellation. You can cancel until the cows come home after the work is completed but that won't change the fact that 100% has been done and the plumber is entitled to be paid for it under the very Regs you are using to justify stopping the cheque. There is no justification for stopping the cheque under these Regs IMO.

The route, as already stated, for dealing with this matter IMO, if the OP is dissatisfied with the overcharge or the plumbers methods or his workmanship, is via Trading Standards if it is not possible to negotiate directly.

Stopping the cheque is wrong and if the tradesman pursued a County court action the OP wil almost certainly lose because they would have to prove that the tradesman wasn't entitled to ANY of the amount covered by the cheque.

The only grounds that I could see for stopping it would be that it was signed "under duress" and I see no evidence of that.

Quoting large tracts of text at me isn't going to change my mind I'm afraid - neither is continually telling me I'm wrong.:)

Cheers

PS I'm giving the forum a rest until Thursday evening! Have fun.

hethmar

OP, unless the cost is really going to cause you a great deal of problems then Id just chalk it up to experience. The amount of hassle you could have for months trying to get a bit of the money back isnt worth the aggro.

Just learn from the experience.

Alan_M_2

The act of canceling a cheque is not illegal, it is a service offered by all banks.

However the intention of that use may be illegal, probably "obtaining goods or services by deception".

A solicitor would advise in more detail and a court would decide definitively in each case.

This nonsense with cheques is why we don't take them, unless the customer is willing to wait until it clears before goods are delivered.

Innys

hethmar wrote: »

OP, unless the cost is really going to cause you a great deal of problems then Id just chalk it up to experience. The amount of hassle you could have for months trying to get a bit of the money back isnt worth the aggro.

Just learn from the experience.

Indeed - just move on and never use this guy again. Make sure none of your mates do either and you may or may not choose to tell him that fact.

canyouhelp

hi
I've been very busy at work and it's probably going to be too late to stop the cheque anyway- and it seems there is some difference of opinion here..! The inlet valve was a Torbeck Adjustable B661AT, which I can see online for about a tenner.
He also replaced another part which I have taken a photo of but the site is telling me as a new user I can't post links, any ideas how I can show it to you?
Thanks