What causes condensation on windows?

GDB2222

poppysarah wrote: »

There are devices that can go in air brick vent spaces that get rid of the damp from the air and keep the warm air in.

Triton Heat Recovery Room Ventilator

is the sort of thing I think

The ones I have seen don't get rid of damp. They do add ventilation, and they have a heat exchanger in that uses some of the air leaving the house to take the chill off the air coming in from outside.

You can always get a dehumidifier.

GDB2222

angrypirate wrote: »

Why should a tenant have to fork out for the capital and running costs of a dehumidifier (the symtom) when the landlord isnt interested in making the investment to remedy the unlying cause of the problem. Its caused by cheap, single glazed windows with no ventilation around the windows. If the LL isnt happy about it, then he / she should do something about it, not complain to the tenant.

Double glazing doesn't help much. It's the lack of ventilation that causes the problem in the first place.

N79

princeofpounds wrote: »

A source of heating and hot water is a legal requirement. So much so that failure to provide one is a criminal offence, not just a civil matter.

Is it? That's a new one on me. My understanding is that it is not even a civil matter, let alone a criminal one to not provide heating and hot water. There is a duty to maintain an existing installation - yes - but actually providing an installation - no (accepting that a council environmental health team may have something to say on the subject, which arguable imposes a civil type obligation).

Any chance of a link to the appropriate statute so that I can educate myself? Thanks.

princeofpounds

Let me clarify - failure to provide heating or hot water can be a criminal offence, it is not immediately one.

I know N79 that you are a knowledgeable poster and I suspect you think I am referring to Landlord and Tenant Act Section 11. You are right - that mandates the repair and working order of such equipment already in place.

The relevant legislation for this is the Housing Act 2004 Section 40 and the Environmental Protection Act Section 80. These are the sections used by environmental health.

The first one relates to category 1 hazards under the housing health and safety rating systems (which is triggered if the temperature of the property cannot be maintained above 16C).

The second one relates to the ability of the local authority to identifya nuisance injurious to health (which this would be) and to issue a repairing order (well, an abatement notice).

And there is the Building Act 1984, Section 76 which allows a council to deal with defective premises with an abatement notice.

So it's an offence under section 11 if there is an existing installation but in poor repair, and if there is no installation in the first place then the property would have a category 1 hazard under HHSRS which is an offence, but you would need to get the council involved before it elevates to a criminal matter.

PS failure to comply with an abatement notice is an offence, punishable by a fine. So similar to a speeding ticket, it is a criminal matter I believe despite being generally viewed as a civil-type penalty.

princeofpounds

oh, and clutton has also posted an interesting article just now that points out that the HHSRS route is potentially open to the OP in the case of this damp as I suggested it might, not just heating and hot water. Damp is also a hazard as well as cold under this system.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2865728

N79

princeofpounds wrote: »

Let me clarify - failure to provide heating or hot water can be a criminal offence, it is not immediately one. I agree that a council will

I know N79 that you are a knowledgeable poster and I suspect you think I am referring to Landlord and Tenant Act Section 11. You are right - that mandates the repair and working order of such equipment already in place.

The relevant legislation for this is the Housing Act 2004 Section 40 and the Environmental Protection Act Section 80. These are the sections used by environmental health.

The first one relates to category 1 hazards under the housing health and safety rating systems (which is triggered if the temperature of the property cannot be maintained above 16C).

The second one relates to the ability of the local authority to identifya nuisance injurious to health (which this would be) and to issue a repairing order (well, an abatement notice).

And there is the Building Act 1984, Section 76 which allows a council to deal with defective premises with an abatement notice.

So it's an offence under section 11 if there is an existing installation but in poor repair, and if there is no installation in the first place then the property would have a category 1 hazard under HHSRS which is an offence, but you would need to get the council involved before it elevates to a criminal matter.

PS failure to comply with an abatement notice is an offence, punishable by a fine. So similar to a speeding ticket, it is a criminal matter I believe despite being generally viewed as a civil-type penalty.

I agree with all the above - I was just surprised by your comment that the mere fact of not providing any heating was a criminal matter (or maybe I was being a pedant - but it is always good to check).

I agree that it would become criminal once the council has served an improvement notice should the LL decide to ignore it - I alluded to this in my post - the part about council environment teams was a (very) cryptic reference to HHSRS orders. We have the same understanding!

And yes - it would be a criminal offence not to comply - S30 and S32 of the housing act define the "crimes" involved.

PS Thanks for the compliment - it applies to you as well!

N79

princeofpounds wrote: »

oh, and clutton has also posted an interesting article just now that points out that the HHSRS route is potentially open to the OP in the case of this damp as I suggested it might, not just heating and hot water. Damp is also a hazard as well as cold under this system.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2865728

Yes - I read clutton's post with interest. Damp will be so much harder though because of the ability of a T to create a damp problem all on their own. Much more care will have to be expended on identify causes of the problem. Easy enough in the case of a structural defect of rising damp but much, much harder in the case of "poor" ventilation. Determining the cause in such cases will be expensive, which will deter councils from persuing all but the most extreme cases, I suspect.

It is far less clear cut example than the total lack of a heating system (which, lets face it, would be very very rare indeed in the UK) but a far more realistic one!

Loanranger

Sleep with your bedroom window open!Needs to be open at least six inches to allow fresh air to circulate.
The breath you breathe out will cause condensation, along with the washing you dry on the clothes horse.

willing2learn_3

Thanks for all the replies i've only just logged on - my flat is freezing, due to these lovely night storage heaters....and i've only just started to get warm at 1.00am. Hopefully i'll get back to sleep.....there is no way i can sleep with my windows open!!! No way at all, the flat is freezing with them closed.

bazzaboo

Why is condensation such a problem in this country though? Is it this climate or the way the houses are build?
In my last house I never had any problems with condensation or mould, then I moved into a flat. I didn't change my lifestyle whatsoever but still ended up with mould in the bathroom and around window seals.
Now I'm back in a house and no problems with condensation or mould. So surely it's not always the lifestyle of people that causes it but shoddy building works.