Selling, HMRC and tax?

macfly

1 and 2 are the same thing. It does no harm to register as soon as possible. I was making the point that anyone who has been trading without informing HMRC does not need to panic if they have been doing so for less than three months.
If it is your only job, paying NI is the best way to go.

Crowqueen

HMRC don't ask you what you were thinking, they just don't care, nor could they enforce any of their rules under such criteria.

In that sense, yes, that's correct, but for the person concerned, intention is when it starts becoming a business trade and therefore qualifies for tax on the proceeds, whether or not HMRC see fit to actually enforce it.

You can't go to car boot sales or charity shops and pick up antiques for sale regularly without being a business and registering as such. That was the purpose of the example, and yes, it starts with intention. No, HMRC couldn't possibly know what your intention was when buying it, but if you do it often enough, they will start to know, and as such, if you do intend to buy directly to sell on, that is a business and you must register.

soolin

Crowqueen wrote: »

OK, it was just a thought.

I still think it is worth considering..the user in question was PPRd a while ago.

I could start a thread, get people to add to it and then add the pertinent points to the first post. How would people feel about that?

If you want it done quickly though it may be better for someone else to do the first post and let us all add to it.

Crowqueen

soolin wrote: »

I still think it is worth considering..the user in question was PPRd a while ago.

I could start a thread, get people to add to it and then add the pertinent points to the first post. How would people feel about that?

If you want it done quickly though it may be better for someone else to do the first post and let us all add to it.

I think you would be a very good person to do it .

Don't forget to link to Talkinpeace's Me page. http://members.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=talkinpeace

macfly

Crowqueen wrote: »

HMRC don't ask you what you were thinking, they just don't care, nor could they enforce any of their rules under such criteria.

In that sense, yes, that's correct, but for the person concerned, intention is when it starts becoming a business trade and therefore qualifies for tax on the proceeds, whether or not HMRC see fit to actually enforce it.

You can't go to car boot sales or charity shops and pick up antiques for sale regularly without being a business and registering as such. That was the purpose of the example, and yes, it starts with intention. No, HMRC couldn't possibly know what your intention was when buying it, but if you do it often enough, they will start to know, and as such, if you do intend to buy directly to sell on, that is a business and you must register.

Intention is not when it starts becoming a business trade. Please stop defending this twaddle. It's either a business by HMRC rules or it's not. Your first example was totally wrong. You will confuse people no end if you persist.
As for setting up a post with advice on the subject - it would be akin to giving medical advice on a forum. Anyone who has been involved with a tax investigation, as I have on countless occasions, would tell you to seek professional advice.
Anything you read on the internet, or in the paper etc. needs to be checked. Including my own advice.

soolin

macfly wrote: »

Intention is not when it starts becoming a business trade. Please stop defending this twaddle. It's either a business by HMRC rules or it's not. Your first example was totally wrong. You will confuse people no end if you persist.
As for setting up a post with advice on the subject - it would be akin to giving medical advice on a forum. Anyone who has been involved with a tax investigation, as I have on countless occasions, would tell you to seek professional advice.
Anything you read on the internet, or in the paper etc. needs to be checked. Including my own advice.

I believe that a basic thread about the requirements would be useful and is not akin to giving medical advice.

We still get (on other boards as well) mentions of not needing to register as they are a hobby seller, or below the registration threshold and I am amazed that there are still people out there who believe these terms. On one of the student threads only a couple of months ago there was mention of business trading but not needing to register for anything as they were not taxable as they were in full time education and therefore not liable to tax in any form.

Crowqueen

It's difficult to prove that you are anything on the internet but I've just finished a course in accountancy and intend to go on to study law, so at what point do I lose my ability to comment or to try and write a guide? I don't want to do it because I don't have direct experience of running my own business quite yet - perhaps you should do it if you are so adamant I'm wrong about what constitutes a business sale and am just out to confuse people. Go on, have a go.

I agree, nothing on this forum should be taken as gospel or in the same league as paid-for advice, but that does not mean that we can't or shouldn't try to define in layman's terms what constitutes or does not constitute business trading, and to try to correct some misinformation out there. We don't check our experience and knowledge in at the door when we come here to post, after all. Otherwise we'd be responsible for anything that happens to someone coming here not knowing what to do.

macfly

soolin wrote: »

I believe that a basic thread about the requirements would be useful and is not akin to giving medical advice.

We still get (on other boards as well) mentions of not needing to register as they are a hobby seller, or below the registration threshold and I am amazed that there are still people out there who believe these terms. On one of the student threads only a couple of months ago there was mention of business trading but not needing to register for anything as they were not taxable as they were in full time education and therefore not liable to tax in any form.

Your last paragraph is exactly why you should shy away from this subject.

macfly

Crowqueen wrote: »

It's difficult to prove that you are anything on the internet but I've just finished a course in accountancy and intend to go on to study law, so at what point do I lose my ability to comment or to try and write a guide? I don't want to do it because I don't have direct experience of running my own business quite yet - perhaps you should do it if you are so adamant I'm wrong about what constitutes a business sale and am just out to confuse people. Go on, have a go.

I agree, nothing on this forum should be taken as gospel or in the same league as paid-for advice, but that does not mean that we can't or shouldn't try to define in layman's terms what constitutes or does not constitute business trading, and to try to correct some misinformation out there. We don't check our experience and knowledge in at the door when we come here to post, after all. Otherwise we'd be responsible for anything that happens to someone coming here not knowing what to do.

I have a fair bit of knowledge about the course you took. It qualifies you as an accounting technician, not as an accountant. Not trivialising it, it's hard work.
Correcting misinformation is exactly what I'm trying to do here. I'm having little success with you, as you still try to push your point.
This is the reason a "guide" should be avoided like the plague.
I would only comment on specific details on a forum, not set up a guide.
I'm sure you are sincere, but some of your posts are absolute proof of the phrase "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

terra_ferma

When I went to the HRMC's basic course the question about when to register was asked, as some people had clearly started trading, were attending the course but had not registered yet.

They said words to the effect that you register when you have goods to sell and customers to sell them to. You don't have to register when you are just buying, nor should wait until after the first sale.
This stuck to mind particularly well because me being me, I registered way too soon.
For my personal situation I took it to mean I should have registered when I started my first listing.

Hope this HMRC's advice helps the other would be business sellers.
If anyone is planning to start trading as a business seller, I definitely recommend going on this course, it's in your interest.