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Taking builers to court, rights on completing work in meantime
bar_1
Posts: 166 Forumite
Hi,
We would like some advice on how to proceed in relation to a possible small claims case against our builder.
It is a very long story but here goes...
We hired a builder, sourced from ‘My Builder’ (operates under a company name but he is a sole trader) to do a small front extension, including works linked to the new bathroom. We paid in instalments while the works were being carried out (total paid was £9,400), based on the quote including VAT the job was £9425).
At this stage not all the work was complete (roof still needed work, no new external doors or windows on site, floor and wall finishing in bathroom and a few other bits). We discuss the fact that we were thinking of getting someone to fit our kitchen (we had originally thought about doing it ourselves until we realised the amount of work involved), he suggested that he would be able to do this and would provide a separate quote. Before he provided the quote they started works in the kitchen (some of the electrics and a few other things). He then came back with a quote of £3,900 for the kitchen, we advised that this was a lot more than we had expected and out of our price ranged and if this is the case we would pay for the works done in there already and asked him to concentrate on completing the original job. He then discussed options for reducing the cost and came back with a quote of £2,900 with a completion date for the original job and the kitchen set for 11th October (just over a week from when we agreed to the quote).
Now this job had already been dragging on since the first week in August and we just wanted it done (he was not always very reliable, came one day, then wouldn’t come back for 2 days etc). The second contract asked for 3 instalments, the last was the due around 4 days before the stated completion date. However, the work was not near completion because our boiler man (who we hired separately) was too busy to come when the builder asked him (had told him to give him plenty of notice) so this delayed things. But we stuck to the contract and paid all monies owed so he has no excuses not to complete it quickly (in hindsight, not a good idea at all).
Another thing to mention was that on 1st October they took the toilet out, explaining that it might have to be out for 4-5 days for reasons I can’t remember. We said that was fine as we could stay at my partner’s sister’s home. However, they did not secure the house properly as they has also fitted the new back door and not secured it in (it was being held in my a few wedges of wood), also there was a door they had propped up against the new window gap which leads into the house. So my partner was not happy to leave the house so was sleeping there at night. When mentioned to the builder he said he would secure the following day, we have not seen him since. We have also had no inside water supply since at least 2-3 weeks before the date the toilet was removed.
So 5 weeks later we have the same situation. We have been calling, texting and e mailing him and finally got through to him on his home phone one night, he explained that he has staffing issues, transport problems and had been unwell. He promised he would be with us the next Monday (25th October), didn’t show, promised he would be there on the wed, explaining what they plan was for the rest of the week and that we would have him full time from now, didn’t show.
I contacted consumer direct and used a template letter giving him 14 days to complete the work or we would have to take further action. His response was (via e mail) that he was shocked as the reason he has put a stop on the works is because we have not paid him £3,000 (basically the kitchen money) and that we seriously need to talk to see where to go from here, we can only assume he is knee jerking to buy time or maybe he think we will pay, or he is just crazy... we wrote back explaining that we have receipts for all the work carried out (referencing invoice numbers). To back this up I sent out copies of the receipts today (e mail was sent Friday night), recorded delivery. We have not heard from him since. We have stated that the offer still stands for him to complete the work within the 14 days given. We have stick to the facts and it professional.
My queries are:
Consumer direct advised to get 3 quotes for the work which is still to be complete (that we have paid for) so we know what to claim in court, I assume this can be anyone who works as a company/sole trader as a builder? Once we have these quotes can we do the works ourselves with help (we have people who will help us fit the kitchen etc, we just need professionals to do the electrics and the roofing). Obviously we won’t have receipts if we go down this route, but I assume the quotes are enough evidence of cost of works... i did try to explain this to the person at Consumer Direct but they just mentioned that the builder could say things we brought would have been cheaper for him as he gets trade, but actually it would cost a lot less for us to do it with help as we have most materials, the majority if the work is labour.
If we are unable to get all the work done before it goes to court what can we do (someone is already fitting our toilet and setting up a temporary sink so I can move back home). Can we get the roof done? It is not sealed and the tiles are not cemented, we don’t want to go the winter with it like that, also I believe you can’t cement in certain temperatures...
Does anyone know the chances of us getting our money back if we win our case (we think it’s around £3,500 he owes us)? We know he has a mortgage as he has discussed this with my partner, he is single, but we don’t know what kind of assets (if any) he might have other than a house.
Would it be worth our money/time consulting with a solicitor about our rights etc? Consumer Direct could not advice on much really.
Many thanks if you have taken the time to read this massive headache.
Any constructive advice is much appreciated.
We would like some advice on how to proceed in relation to a possible small claims case against our builder.
It is a very long story but here goes...
We hired a builder, sourced from ‘My Builder’ (operates under a company name but he is a sole trader) to do a small front extension, including works linked to the new bathroom. We paid in instalments while the works were being carried out (total paid was £9,400), based on the quote including VAT the job was £9425).
At this stage not all the work was complete (roof still needed work, no new external doors or windows on site, floor and wall finishing in bathroom and a few other bits). We discuss the fact that we were thinking of getting someone to fit our kitchen (we had originally thought about doing it ourselves until we realised the amount of work involved), he suggested that he would be able to do this and would provide a separate quote. Before he provided the quote they started works in the kitchen (some of the electrics and a few other things). He then came back with a quote of £3,900 for the kitchen, we advised that this was a lot more than we had expected and out of our price ranged and if this is the case we would pay for the works done in there already and asked him to concentrate on completing the original job. He then discussed options for reducing the cost and came back with a quote of £2,900 with a completion date for the original job and the kitchen set for 11th October (just over a week from when we agreed to the quote).
Now this job had already been dragging on since the first week in August and we just wanted it done (he was not always very reliable, came one day, then wouldn’t come back for 2 days etc). The second contract asked for 3 instalments, the last was the due around 4 days before the stated completion date. However, the work was not near completion because our boiler man (who we hired separately) was too busy to come when the builder asked him (had told him to give him plenty of notice) so this delayed things. But we stuck to the contract and paid all monies owed so he has no excuses not to complete it quickly (in hindsight, not a good idea at all).
Another thing to mention was that on 1st October they took the toilet out, explaining that it might have to be out for 4-5 days for reasons I can’t remember. We said that was fine as we could stay at my partner’s sister’s home. However, they did not secure the house properly as they has also fitted the new back door and not secured it in (it was being held in my a few wedges of wood), also there was a door they had propped up against the new window gap which leads into the house. So my partner was not happy to leave the house so was sleeping there at night. When mentioned to the builder he said he would secure the following day, we have not seen him since. We have also had no inside water supply since at least 2-3 weeks before the date the toilet was removed.
So 5 weeks later we have the same situation. We have been calling, texting and e mailing him and finally got through to him on his home phone one night, he explained that he has staffing issues, transport problems and had been unwell. He promised he would be with us the next Monday (25th October), didn’t show, promised he would be there on the wed, explaining what they plan was for the rest of the week and that we would have him full time from now, didn’t show.
I contacted consumer direct and used a template letter giving him 14 days to complete the work or we would have to take further action. His response was (via e mail) that he was shocked as the reason he has put a stop on the works is because we have not paid him £3,000 (basically the kitchen money) and that we seriously need to talk to see where to go from here, we can only assume he is knee jerking to buy time or maybe he think we will pay, or he is just crazy... we wrote back explaining that we have receipts for all the work carried out (referencing invoice numbers). To back this up I sent out copies of the receipts today (e mail was sent Friday night), recorded delivery. We have not heard from him since. We have stated that the offer still stands for him to complete the work within the 14 days given. We have stick to the facts and it professional.
My queries are:
Consumer direct advised to get 3 quotes for the work which is still to be complete (that we have paid for) so we know what to claim in court, I assume this can be anyone who works as a company/sole trader as a builder? Once we have these quotes can we do the works ourselves with help (we have people who will help us fit the kitchen etc, we just need professionals to do the electrics and the roofing). Obviously we won’t have receipts if we go down this route, but I assume the quotes are enough evidence of cost of works... i did try to explain this to the person at Consumer Direct but they just mentioned that the builder could say things we brought would have been cheaper for him as he gets trade, but actually it would cost a lot less for us to do it with help as we have most materials, the majority if the work is labour.
If we are unable to get all the work done before it goes to court what can we do (someone is already fitting our toilet and setting up a temporary sink so I can move back home). Can we get the roof done? It is not sealed and the tiles are not cemented, we don’t want to go the winter with it like that, also I believe you can’t cement in certain temperatures...
Does anyone know the chances of us getting our money back if we win our case (we think it’s around £3,500 he owes us)? We know he has a mortgage as he has discussed this with my partner, he is single, but we don’t know what kind of assets (if any) he might have other than a house.
Would it be worth our money/time consulting with a solicitor about our rights etc? Consumer Direct could not advice on much really.
Many thanks if you have taken the time to read this massive headache.
Any constructive advice is much appreciated.
0
Comments
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Why does this need two threads?
If you undertake work yourself that he has been paid for or alternatively is contracted for but not paid for without having formally terminated the contract he could argue that you yourselves have frustrated the contract.
Your problem here is communication. Actually its a lack of it. You say he owes you, he says you owe him, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc. It sounds like you are both transmitting at one another with neither of you on receive.
There is no point in giving one another ultimatums and deadlines - you might just as well pour a bucket of petrol on the bonfire.
!!!!!! just sit down together and agree a way forward that both of you are comfortable with. Record that in writing and make sure both sides stick to it.
As has been mentioned on your other thread I still don't think we have the whole story here.
CheersThe difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. - Einstein0
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