Fiat Punto

custardy

bigjl wrote: »

The red key is the master key, which is required when ever the battery is disconnected, yes you can get the blue key copied, and you always could, there is nothing new there, as that isn't the red master key.

You can't get a new red key, hence why a Fiat breaker has matched sets of red keys and ECU's on the shelf, ready for the next punter that has lost the red key then changed the battery.

Don't know much about the newer Fiats as I would never buy a new one, but the red key issue is well known.


Feel free to Google "lost fiat red key", and you will get page after page of information.

Or have a read of the fiat owners forums.

I am surprised that you talk about taking ECU's out of Fiats but you have no knowledge of such a widespread problem.

I think even HonestJohn has threads about this, it has been an issue for over ten years.


Not sure what you are talking about when you say you have had red key ECU's on the shelf for years, as an ECU doesn't have a battery, the battery I was reffering to was the car battery.

If you have a flat car battery then you need the red "master" key to start the vehicle.

Why not go down to a mate that has a Punto with a red key, throw the red key away, then disconnect the battery and try to start it with the blue key.

Note that due to this being a security measure even Fiat can't get you a new red key, they will sell you a new ECU and a new red key to go with it.

Now go and do some research on the subject before saying other posters are speaking "utter utter rubbish".

The fact that Fiat may have changed the system recently doesn't affect the accuracy of my post.

do you have any links to anyone having problems after disconnecting their battery and requiring a red key/new ECU
i know all about the red keys and in 7 years of being a member of a Fiat owners forum,cant recall anyone needing a red key for having diconnected the battery
infact in the main the only tie it causes issues is when folks lose all their keys and find out they cant just get a key cut.
The ECU doesnt have a battery,it has flash ROM
why would a Fiat ECU lose its memory when the battery is disconnected yet others dont? the red key system is simply an immobiliser system(and has a separate 'code box'. the red key makes the ECU go into flashing mode
the ECU has a finite amount of flashes available(though its in the 000's)
very few people ever require a red key outside getting keys cut.

If you have a flat car battery then you need the red "master" key to start the vehicle.

Why not go down to a mate that has a Punto with a red key, throw the red key away, then disconnect the battery and try to start it with the blue key.

as i said utter utter nonsense
I had a project car with the red key system off road and he ECU in the house for months
started fine with a fresh battery
this car has been off the road many times since(i know the new owner) and fires up every time with no red key

this guy just get lucky?

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=39756

many times folks will be removing the battery to work on the car.so when they have issues after the often panic about red keys
it can simply require them to leave the car for a bit for voltages to settle
ECUs dont like spiking voltages

custardy

bigjl wrote: »

Found this on the Fiat website, appears to be a letter to a customer.

Hi
This vehicle is fitted with a “Code 1” immobiliser system.
It comes supplied with one Master key (usually red) & a number of slave keys (usually blue).
Only one master key is supplied with the vehicle and it is needed to store the codes of other keys in the memory in the event that you lose or damage a key or order copies.
No repairs can be carried out on the Fiat code system or genuine additional keys added, if the master key is lost.
If a fault happens with the immobiliser system, without the master key, you will likely have to replace your engine control unit, code/immobiliser control unit & a full production lock set.
It can be repaired but at a greater cost.
Kind regards
Fiat Marketing
Search "Fiat UK" on Facebook. Follow Fiat_UK on Twitter. Need some help? Call Ciao Fiat on freephone 00800 3428 0000.


Though I would assume that much in the same way as the software in digital speedos can be hacked then the software on these systems can be hacked, as soon as the demand and therefore profit margin is there. Though from what I was led to believe,one reason for reasonable insurance groups for Fiats was this system.

its all been cracked
blue keys can be cloned
ECUs can be 'virginised' to have no key codes stored
or you buy a complete 2nd hand ECU,code box,lockset and replace the whole lot
im sure you will find times when voltage spikes have caused issues and possibly even fried ECUs on many marques
however removing the battery on a red key equipped car is not an issue

bigjl

So you think that because some people that are active in this segment of the car industry know ways round a common problem affecting owners makes you think it isn't something a prospective owner should be aware of.


Or would you assume that because somebody knows so little about cars that they have asked for relevant opinions on a forum the=at perhaps this same person might not be aware of the ways to "virginise" ECU's.

And why do you keep talking about the battery in the ECU, that was never mentioned by me, I mentioned the car battery, wether it is dosconnected to have work done or the battery goes flat makes no difference, the simple fact is that in vehicles that have the red key system then it needs to be considered, after all the OP may be consideing just such a car.

Nice to see you are saying that the person employed by Fiat UK is also wrong, as that is the what I have cut and pasted into the previous post.

But just to confirm, you could always copy the blue key that is nothing new, the fact that you can now get round the red key issue in the vehicles concerned is also irrelevant, as the red key issue is till an issue, which needs to be considered, as at a minimum you are going to have to spend money getting the ECU and red key sorted out, this won't be free will it, but may affect the price of a used car in the sub £1000 bracket as it may need a couple of hundred pounds spent on simply due to the red key issue.

You also seem unable to read and understand my posts, I have posted the information so that the owner can consider it, and then you write

"or you buy a complete 2nd hand ECU,code box,lockset and replace the whole lot"

Which is why i posted the information, no red key and you might have to replace the ecu and redkey as they are a matched set.

So in essence you are insulting me and disagfreeing with me whilst agreeing with me!

Canyou honestly not see how contradictory your posts are, aswell as being completly unproductive.

custardy

bigjl wrote: »

So you think that because some people that are active in this segment of the car industry know ways round a common problem affecting owners makes you think it isn't something a prospective owner should be aware of. it isnt a problem.its one you have made up.losing the red key is an issue for getting keys cut.a small issue nowadays.its not an issue for changing batteries


Or would you assume that because somebody knows so little about cars that they have asked for relevant opinions on a forum the=at perhaps this same person might not be aware of the ways to "virginise" ECU's. all it takes is a visit to the forums.many visit the forum im on and ask about red keys.they are given all the info they need or could need.its a non issue unless you lose all the keys.

And why do you keep talking about the battery in the ECU, that was never mentioned by me, I mentioned the car battery, wether it is dosconnected to have work done or the battery goes flat makes no difference, the simple fact is that in vehicles that have the red key system then it needs to be considered, after all the OP may be consideing just such a car. you brought up a battery in the ECU.i have never brought it up,only to reply to you.why would i mention something i know doesnt exist? it makes no difference to the red key system if the battery goes flat or is removed to have work done.the red key is not required when the battery is reconnected/charged

Nice to see you are saying that the person employed by Fiat UK is also wrong, as that is the what I have cut and pasted into the previous post. your quote refers to keys and working on the immobiliser.not changing/removing the battery

But just to confirm, you could always copy the blue key that is nothing new, the fact that you can now get round the red key issue in the vehicles concerned is also irrelevant, as the red key issue is till an issue, which needs to be considered, as at a minimum you are going to have to spend money getting the ECU and red key sorted out, this won't be free will it, but may affect the price of a used car in the sub £1000 bracket as it may need a couple of hundred pounds spent on simply due to the red key issue. and this is why on the forum i always recommend people use no red key as a haggling tool.but not to worry about not having one.

You also seem unable to read and understand my posts, I have posted the information so that the owner can consider it, and then you write

"or you buy a complete 2nd hand ECU,code box,lockset and replace the whole lot"

Which is why i posted the information, no red key and you might have to replace the ecu and redkey as they are a matched set.

So in essence you are insulting me and disagfreeing with me whilst agreeing with me! im not insulting you.you are posting nonsensical scare storys.changing the battery,removing the engine for that sake does not require the red key

Canyou honestly not see how contradictory your posts are, aswell as being completly unproductive.

there is nothing contradictory in my posts.you are off on a tangent.
to make it clear.
the red key relates to the imobiliser on the car. the ECU is paired to the code box(under the dash if you want to look) and such paired to the keys via a transponder chip in the keys.
this is read by an induction loop around the ignition barrel.
thats it
you can work in the engine bay all day long and change everything but the ECU,and you wont need the red key.

gingerdad

i know our 2002 one didn't have a red key, they had stopped that by then....

custardy

gingerdad wrote: »

i know our 2002 one didn't have a red key, they had stopped that by then....

Fiat went to "code 2" around 2000 except for the bravo/brava