Early-retirement wannabe

AnotherJoe

Spreadsheetman wrote: »

Really, really don't count on it. My widowed father has gone from completely independent in his own home & driving his own car, to a care home via heart attack + acute heart failure + stroke within a 10 week period.

At no point would Switzerland have been an option. Thank God he has enough assets to make a choice of care homes an option and fortunate that his age and condition means he is extremely unlikely to outlive his money.

Agreed, its not 100% certain it would work, but then nothing is, and so absent a very large amount of money (by most peoples standards) , all you can do is play the odds. I'm not going to destroy my retirement for an edge case. I could have worked another ten years to save just for the care home eventuality, but its a calculated risk I've taken, plus my main point is, for most people, even that wouldnt make any difference to affordabilty.

lisyloo

michaels wrote: »

The only insurance product available to cover longevity risk seems to be an annuity and yet it seems we all worry about the complete unknown that is care home fees.

You would think the insurance companies would come up with a product that allowed this risk to be pooled between those who ended up needing years of care and those who need none.

You can get a care needs annuity (I have been considering an immediate one I.e. person already in care).

My IFA said it’s usually around 3 years of care fees but would depend on an individual medical screen.

The downside in you might pay 3 years worth for nothing.
The advantage is that you know exactly what you’ll be spending.

We are in the situation where the available pot will be £180k and care fees £20k per annum (after income of pension, attendance allowance, nhs nursing care take not into account).

The choice is to pay as we go and the beneficiaries will be left with anything between £0 and £180k, or pay say £60k and leave the risk to the insurer

We really have no idea about longevity, but I can see the appeal.
In our case the person is already in a home which is different but presumably that is taken into account in the cost.

Don’t forget that income (such as pension) reduces the fees.
In our case from £850 to £400 per week which is significant and that’s without any private pension.

lisyloo

AnotherJoe wrote: »

This is why Switzerland figures in my contingency plans.

Another vote for dont count on it.
My MILs life is pitiful, but she has lost capacity so can’t decide to go to Switzerland.

If you really fell that’s an option for you then you need to document your wishes, but it’s still hard to be definitive I.e. who can decide when your life is no longer worth living? How are you going to define that?

lisyloo

Anonymous101 wrote: »

It seems that planned downsizing (or planning for the possibility of downsizing) is the most obvious way to go. Using that as the mechanism also has the effect that you don't feel as if you're setting aside a large amount of funds for a possibility that may never happen. Since you need somewhere to live and the equity in property isn't thought of as liquid then that's a reasonable approach for me.

Perhaps the biggest issue with downsizing is an emotional one? Many people feel very attached to their homes and if you've managed to overcome that early enough then its just the upheaval of psychically moving that you'll have to deal with.

Yes many people want the advantages but also like their home.

I have no issue with it, but I’ll give you an example where it won’t always solve the care issue.

My MIL and FIL downsized from a 3 bed home to a flat when they were 74. Earlier than some but they were both disabled.
They went from £135k to £99k so didn’t free up a massive amount as flat are expansive compared to 3 bed semis but they had a few cruises.

When it came to MIl going into nursing care at 89, they could not downsize as the year were already in a flat.
They didn’t have to pay.
Luckily we found somewhere nice not perfect but caring but many of the places we saw were appaulling and we only got here someonwhere nice by strong advocacy and MIl being in hospital where the LA get fined for bed blocked which meant they didn’t want a length delay.

So be aware that if you downsize early (which may be a great idea especially if your losing your mobility) and spend some of the money (remember retirement flats and bungalows come at a premium) then you may be unable to sell/downsize later on if one person is remaining in a small property.

penwise

The posts about retirement planning for the post 85 phase have been really helpful. Before any of us retire early I think it is important to try to plan for this.

Getting into a good residential/nursing home ( if care is needed) is crucial to your health and welbeing and family help here is invaluable.

If there will be no family help what additional plans would you put in place

lisyloo

Getting into a good residential/nursing home

This is a challenge and I would say strong advocacy is what's needed.

If there will be no family help what additional plans would you put in place

Good advocates (i.e. people you can trust and who are articulate) and a power of attorney. We knew nothing but we knew how to research our rights and present our case.
Also have some replacement advocates who are younger if possible.
If you pick your siblings, friends, partner and you live to a grand old age, then there's a possibility you might outlive them all.


You can have replacement attorneys for this eventuality.


Also don't forget that some people manage with assisted living / carer visits.

I would say that moving before you need the facilities so they are in place is a good plan.
Our parents did not want to face moving at 89 and they also found it very difficult to adjust to anything at all, so make the changes before you need them.

penwise

Thanks for that - its makes good sense to save money for later care - but if you don't have a partner/children to help its a hard ask of anyone else. If I was in that situation I would probably prefer to pay someone for this service if I could afford it - I just don't know of such services.

Triumph13

We rather fancy the idea of a retirement village - described as like a university campus for the elderly. Not cheap and only slowly catching on in the UK, but I think they would fit our needs perfectly. You move in whilst still fit and healthy and have a bunch of like minded neighbours for social interaction. As you get more infirm you can gradually buy in more care services as needed.
Our plans include making sure we have enough for this kind of arrangement in our old age. It is particularly appealing as a way of combatting social isolation, particularly for the survivor after the first of us pops our clogs.

lisyloo

If I was in that situation I would probably prefer to pay someone for this service if I could afford it - I just don't know of such services.

I don't think this would be possible.
For example my SIL had to ask the social workers to review my FILs case when he could no longer manage to get into bed and needed a carer at night.


It's going to have to be a regular visitor to be aware of any hygiene or toileting issues you have which you don't want to admit or have lost the capacity to ask for help or realise you need it.


It is indeed a big ask.
Do you have any close friends you could agree a reciprocal arrangement with?


There are a number of things that fall through the gaps even if you are in a care home (clothes, glasses, teeth, hearing aids) that family are expected to pick up.

itm2

Triumph13 wrote: »

We rather fancy the idea of a retirement village - described as like a university campus for the elderly. Not cheap and only slowly catching on in the UK, but I think they would fit our needs perfectly. You move in whilst still fit and healthy and have a bunch of like minded neighbours for social interaction. As you get more infirm you can gradually buy in more care services as needed.
Our plans include making sure we have enough for this kind of arrangement in our old age. It is particularly appealing as a way of combatting social isolation, particularly for the survivor after the first of us pops our clogs.

That's increasingly becoming my ideal way of seeing out my latter days. In a perfect scenario (for me at least), groups of longtime friends would form small mini-villages to ensure that they are surrounded by familiar and friendly faces in their later years, maybe sharing the cost of any care required by that community. God knows how that sort of thing could be arranged, but it's a nice thought.