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Early-retirement wannabe
Comments
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I see this as a possible out re the NHS.
Other socialist countries dont have a problem with it, so dont see why we cant do it too. And I would presume charges would be means tested for those on benefits.
I certainly would have no problem paying a fiver to see the doctor.
Not going to fly though, we can't even fine people for consistently not showing up for appointments.
Not sure why you think the uk is socialist, it has a social care and health system, but not a socialist tax system, people aren't prepared to pay for it which is why the debt burden is large.
Opposition would come from all sides, public would be outraged that the NHS wasn't free, the media would jump on the bandwagon, doctors and health professional wouldn't want to get involved in any charging system, let's face it it's difficult enough trying to get a go to work out whether they are employees or self employed, seems to vary with teh question asked!0 -
Not going to fly though, we can't even fine people for consistently not showing up for appointments.
Not sure why you think the uk is socialist, it has a social care and health system, but not a socialist tax system, people aren't prepared to pay for it which is why the debt burden is large.
Opposition would come from all sides, public would be outraged that the NHS wasn't free, the media would jump on the bandwagon, doctors and health professional wouldn't want to get involved in any charging system, let's face it it's difficult enough trying to get a go to work out whether they are employees or self employed, seems to vary with teh question asked!
The majority of countries in continental Europe don't have a system structured like that in the UK and for a very good reason. If there is no cost for something then perception of value is lower. Thats just basic psychology.
Government's should be providing a safety net and those with sufficient wealth should be compelled to pay more. They would be happy to do so for better service. By so doing this relieve the pressure on government provided care. Of course its not going to happen because the political parties in the UK are more interested in points scoring against in other rather than working together to define solutions that actually help people.
Vote for meMoney won't buy you happiness....but I have never been in a situation where more money made things worse!0 -
Not going to fly though, we can't even fine people for consistently not showing up for appointments.
Not sure why you think the uk is socialist, it has a social care and health system, but not a socialist tax system, people aren't prepared to pay for it which is why the debt burden is large.
Opposition would come from all sides, public would be outraged that the NHS wasn't free, the media would jump on the bandwagon, doctors and health professional wouldn't want to get involved in any charging system, let's face it it's difficult enough trying to get a go to work out whether they are employees or self employed, seems to vary with teh question asked!
fine people for consistently not showing up for appointments.
Why not? We should. Or if you had to pay a fiver for one, maybe they would show up?
Not sure why you think the uk is socialist, it has a social care and health system, but not a socialist tax system, people aren't prepared to pay for it which is why the debt burden is large.
I think the UK is socialist due to the NHS and the abundant welfare system that does not always encourage working over benefits. Having said this, not sure why you think socialist as a descriptor is bad- just factual?
Opposition would come from all sides, public would be outraged that the NHS wasn't free, the media would jump on the bandwagon, doctors and health professional wouldn't want to get involved in any charging system, let's face it it's difficult enough trying to get a go to work out whether they are employees or self employed, seems to vary with teh question asked![/QUOTE]
Which is exactly my point. The "NHS" in other EU countries isnt free- see france.0 -
The only info I have is given to me by a couple of expats that I'm in contact with, based on what they tell me they currently pay. I would expect a troubled medical history might prove more expensive.
The cheapest is the chap who has the all-in solution I mentioned for which he pays 90 euros pcm. The downside is it does have a cap of 15,000 euros for any one hospital in-patient event, and he buys this through his bank.
Another expat I chat with pays 1231 euros per year in advance, rising to 1570 euros from age 66, and this one is capped at 100,000 euros in-patient, 3,500 euros out-patient and also covers most dental work. She buys this through Allianz.
You also have to pay 5 euros to see a GP and prescription medicines are charged at their value, so can be expensive if it's not basic medication, although life-dependent drugs are subsidised.
Have you got any names for the providers of these policies ?because they sound more than "too good to be true" and I suspect your friends are either misunderstanding or plain lying about the capabilities they provide.
The couple I mentioned whomwere quoted more than £1k a month for private healthcare policies are early 60's good health. So pardon my scepticism at policies that are 10% the cost of these,as to what they really provide despite what your friends believe or say they do.0 -
Marine_life wrote: »The majority of countries in continental Europe don't have a system structured like that in the UK and for a very good reason. If there is no cost for something then perception of value is lower. Thats just basic psychology.
Government's should be providing a safety net and those with sufficient wealth should be compelled to pay more. They would be happy to do so for better service. By so doing this relieve the pressure on government provided care. Of course its not going to happen because the political parties in the UK are more interested in points scoring against in other rather than working together to define solutions that actually help people.
Vote for me
I didn't say it was sensible, just seems the consensus of opinion in the uk, has been for decades and no sign of change.
Everyone in the uk seems to think they can pay very little tax and still provide comprehensive social and health benefits. Most of Europe, at least the developed north, tax highly and provides large benefits, the us and much of Asia, excluding Japan, are low tax and low benefit. Teh British are too stupid to realise it can't have your cake and eat it, and the media makes things worse.
Unfortunately we can't vote for you coz you're in Europe!0 -
fine people for consistently not showing up for appointments.
Why not? We should. Or if you had to pay a fiver for one, maybe they would show up?
Not sure why you think the uk is socialist, it has a social care and health system, but not a socialist tax system, people aren't prepared to pay for it which is why the debt burden is large.
I think the UK is socialist due to the NHS and the abundant welfare system that does not always encourage working over benefits. Having said this, not sure why you think socialist as a descriptor is bad- just factual?
Opposition would come from all sides, public would be outraged that the NHS wasn't free, the media would jump on the bandwagon, doctors and health professional wouldn't want to get involved in any charging system, let's face it it's difficult enough trying to get a go to work out whether they are employees or self employed, seems to vary with teh question asked!
Which is exactly my point. The "NHS" in other EU countries isnt free- see france.[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree with much of what you say but it just doesn't seem achievable given public option, media and politics.
The NHS was a fantastic achievement and a world leader in the 1940s, however people don't realise how far it has fallen behind other countries in at least some areas. I can't think of many other areas that would state it a good thing that they operate in the same manner as they did seventy years ago, but any talk of charging at the point of delivery, or even outsourcing which obviously makes sense in at least some areas is absolutely untenable.
Socialism has been a pejorative term for several decades I would have said, just look at privatisation. It also presumes a high tax economy to pay for the high levels of provision, like Scandinavia for example, and that doesn't apply to the uk.
It's probably easier to state health systems in other countries rather than the NHS, makes things a little clearer. My impression is that health services in Europe are frequently better than the NHS, and things should change but you know they won't. Every service should be looking for innovation and continual improvement, otherwise it stagnates, but so much is beyond the pale that politicians won't touch it.
My impression over recent years is that the NHS was the second least efficient system in the world, only outline by the US, but more recently spending does seem to have Ben reined in, so whilst outcomes still often aren't great compared to other countries, costs are actually the same or less.0 -
AnotherJoe wrote: »Have you got any names for the providers of these policies ?because they sound more than "too good to be true" and I suspect your friends are either misunderstanding or plain lying about the capabilities they provide.
The couple I mentioned whomwere quoted more than £1k a month for private healthcare policies are early 60's good health. So pardon my scepticism at policies that are 10% the cost of these,as to what they really provide despite what your friends believe or say they do.
I don't have any further information on the inclusive one, but the other one is bought through an organization set up for expats and, as I mentioned in the post, is through Allianz and other people have mentioned this one at similar figures.
If the couple in their early 60s are being quoted over £1000 per month then that is a ridiculous figure - I am currently in a BUPA scheme that is included in my employment package and, although it is probably discounted as a group scheme, from April 2017 to March 2018 I know it is worth £803.00 for the entire year.0 -
I don't want to start a "my health service is better than yours" but.
Here in Luxembourg everything medical has a price.
Doctors appointments, prescriptions, medicine, X rays, scans, Dental work, Opthamolgist, Hospital rooms, etc, etc.
I pay a price at point of service, submit the bill and receive a rebate that varies between 80% and 100%
I therefore feel the "weight" of the cost. I don't think it's free but it is close to being so.
There are different rules that apply to the unemployed or others in need.
Appointments are readily available and in my personal experience a non urgent scan or x ray for example arranged today would take place within 12/24 hours. My last visit to A & E, thankfully a few years ago, lasted less than 2/3 hours.
It is not a perfect system but it appears not to suffer from the problems I hear about in the UK.
The KEY for me is EVERYTHING has a price on it even it costs me nothing.
It might not even be the true cost but frankly that does not matter.
Just two examples
1) My last doctors (GP) appointment, one month ago, was for a chat, taking blood samples including a written report a copy of which was in my letterbox two days later, and a prescription total cost €51.70 the rebate was €38.46 my cost €13.24
2) Tablets from The Pharmacy the ticket price €164.51 I paid €32.90.
There is no need to debate levels of personal taxation or social contributions as they are not significantly different to the UK.There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.0 -
We currently pay around €950 per month for (compulsory) private cover on which we receive around a €250 rebate so net around €700 or €8,400 p.a. on top of that we have to incur around €250 each before before we can claim anything.
Its expensive but I have never waited more than two weeks to see a specialist.Money won't buy you happiness....but I have never been in a situation where more money made things worse!0 -
but it just doesn't seem achievable given public option, media and politics.
Public opinion and media are part of the problem.
you cant have a great service if you arent willing to pay for it. And we should pay a small, token amount.0
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