Insular Brits not thinking beyond the borders

byb3

I'm glad I saw this post.

There are plenty of universities outside of the UK that offer far better value for money than we will be getting if fees rise to £9k per year.

Countries often mentioned are the Netherlands, Germany and Switzerland. I know Italy has some very good univerisites. Sweden, Finland, France and Denmark are also good choices.

If you're feeling brave you can also fly over to USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. If you're feeling very brave then check out China, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, South Korea as they also have some brilliant universities. You'll need at least 6 months to get to grips with the language but if you're bright enough to be going to university you should be able to pick up a new language in no time.

Imagine having come out of a degree learning how to speak German or Mandarin? You would definitely stand out when applying for jobs.

If I had to do it all over again I would have definitely went to the far east.

Simply put, a UK degree is not worth £9,000 per year. I think we're kidding ourselves if we think they are.

glider3560

byb3 wrote: »

You'll need at least 6 months to get to grips with the language but if you're bright enough to be going to university you should be able to pick up a new language in no time.

May be easier in some subjects than others. Imagine taking a science course and having to relearn all the terminology in another language - would probably take considerably longer than 6 months!

Oldernotwiser

byb3 wrote: »

Imagine having come out of a degree learning how to speak German or Mandarin? You would definitely stand out when applying for jobs.

If I had to do it all over again I would have definitely went to the far east.
.

I would be happy if people came out of a degree able to speak correct English!

The idea that someone could learn a language in 6 months up to the standard of understanding lectures and writing academic essays is totally ridiculous!

The_One_Who

As above, to learn a language to a competent academic level is going to task even the best students. Even more so if you are planning on going to somewhere in Asia where the languages are completely different.

You are also forgetting that for some subjects no other country can really compete with the UK.

angelofmel

The_One_Who wrote: »

You are also forgetting that for some subjects no other country can really compete with the UK.

Exactly. Why would I want to complete my English degree in Europe? and what use is a teaching qualification in China if its not accepted in the UK. Sometime is just not possible, or indeed logical to go abroad, cheaper fees or no.

However, for international students to come here makes perfect sense given how english is the current lingua franca and one of the best ways to learn it is to emerse yourself in the language.

What works one way isnt nessecerily a good idea in the opposite way.

A_Doonhamer

The op uses the term "Brits" but I assume he knows that some of us do not pay fees and so have far less reason to look abroad?

Voyager2002

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I would be happy if people came out of a degree able to speak correct English!

The idea that someone could learn a language in 6 months up to the standard of understanding lectures and writing academic essays is totally ridiculous!

It is not unusual for International students with only a basic knowledge of English to come for a one-year or even six month language course, and then proceed directly to a degree, taught in English of course. It is remarkable that so many of them seem to cope.

Oldernotwiser

Voyager2002 wrote: »

It is not unusual for International students with only a basic knowledge of English to come for a one-year or even six month language course, and then proceed directly to a degree, taught in English of course. It is remarkable that so many of them seem to cope.

There's coping and coping. Don't forget how much money the UK university makes from international students and how much leeway they can often be allowed because of this!;)

Zziggi

bewildered123 wrote: »

^ yep you need the language for Germany still (or pay the fees at private universities) - there's often odd classes taught in English but undergrad is still pretty much German language. It's different at postgrad. The other problem for UK students is that Germany and Switzerland at least don't accept A-levels as entry qualifications, unless the subjects include at least one language and one out of Maths, Biology, Physics & Chemistry. Given how low A-level foreign language exam entries are, I'd doubt many UK students would be qualified. Plus for Germany at least, it would be a huge shock to them - I studied there and you can forget any sort of pastoral support or contact with the teaching staff, getting a degree is as much about successfully battling a very student-unfriendly system as it is about academic achievement. The drop-out rates are enormous.

This post is absolutely spot on! Pastoral support in German universities doesn't exist. Neither does a student life at a weekend. Most german students attend their local university and return home each weekend. Student accommodation is deserted except for foreign students at a weekend.

jrawle

glider3560 wrote: »

May be easier in some subjects than others. Imagine taking a science course and having to relearn all the terminology in another language - would probably take considerably longer than 6 months!

Have you ever heard scientists speaking another language? It's actually easier to understand than a non-science conversation as every other word is in "English" (or at least terminology) which is the same in every language. Plus most scientific journals are in English, so even if you don't find an English-language course, all the materials you need would be available in English.

Voyager2002 wrote: »

It is not unusual for International students with only a basic knowledge of English to come for a one-year or even six month language course, and then proceed directly to a degree, taught in English of course. It is remarkable that so many of them seem to cope.

In my experience, many of them barely cope. Most come to study master's degrees, which are mainly about private study and coursework. Often the essays and dissertations they write are barely comprehensible - I don't envy the academics who try to mark them, assuming they bother to mark them properly at all. "Proofreading" international students' work often means rewriting it entirely.

Also, because they aren't so confident with their English, they spend their whole year or so here mostly with people of their own nationality, and certainly largely among other international students and not mixing with any home students at all.

Of course, this is a generalisation. Some international students' English is very good, and they produce great coursework. But the cynic in me thinks the idea is they pay the fee and receive a master's degree that will make them highly employable back at home - everyone's a winner, on the face of it at least.