Flamin' 'Eck, English House Prices Are Cheap.....

Really2

Generali wrote: »

I just thought it was interesting that there is an average of some sort showing house prices are not crippling in many parts of the UK.

Indeed many parts of the UK are more than affordable, looking on RM the cheapest 4 bed house within 10 miles of me is £75K... (not a great area though, and is a terraced)

The cheapest 4 bed detached is £140K.

I think the problem is many of the more expensive town outside London have poor job oppertunitys for the young etc. (mainly old market towns, now turning in to retirement towns:))
So yes you wont get much as a young person in the most expensive areas (shock).
But usually within 10 miles of any major work hub towns there are villages and towns that are more than affordable.
I think some expect they should be able to work in their birth town, really that idea went in the 70's if you ask me.
You cut your cloth to fit now, 10 miles is 20 mins for most villagers, compare that to London, 20 mins would be what 4 mile or less?

nembot

The problem here is these prices do not reflect the local average wage.

For example, 114k maybe the figure for an average priced house in Liverpool, but it's highly unlikely the average wage would be anywhere near 25k in the local area - in fact it's probably a lot closer to 13-14k.

Would imagine the same analogy would be applicable to many areas, so affordibility is a term that can only be used loosely.

[edit, too many "terms" ]

Really2

nembot wrote: »

The problem here is these prices do not reflect the local average wage.

For example, 114k maybe the figure for an average priced house in Liverpool, but it's highly unlikely the average wage would be anywhere near 25k in the local area - in fact it's probably a lot closer to 13-14k.

Would imagine the same analogy would be applicable to many areas, so affordibility is a term that can only be used loosely in these terms.

Average full time wage in Liverpool is £23,280
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_labour/ASHE-2009/2009_work_la.pdf

robin_banks

Really2 wrote: »

Prices look to be weighted around the price of a terrace house for the areas.

Perhaps this is what they class FTB territory.

There's a lot terraces in the EM, especially the cities and the former mining and textile towns.

lemonjelly

Generali wrote: »

I have family and friends all over England, plus one or 2 in Scotland but despite living in 3 countries, I've only lived in the SE corner of England.

When I've been to some towns in the North and Midlands (eg Stoke and Retford) I've not seen much evidence of an economy beyond shops, pubs, some agriculture between the towns and a small amount of light industry. I assumed I was missing something.

Bad examples to be fair Gen. There are economies around the UK. Part of the problem (imo of course) is that there are still those who cling to the image of "traditional areas & their traditional economies".

For example, Telford has grown a fair bit in recent years by developing its economic base.

robin_banks wrote: »

All I would say to that Gen is 25k in the provinces is hard to come by.

But if you can handle long communtes... .

I agree with this. Outside of the south/south west, wages really plummet. I have only ever had 1 job which earned in excess of £25k.

For almost 6 years, I've had 2 jobs. I am different to many others, my parents fell ill so I've become the main breadwinner for the family, so there you go.

Rare as rocking horse do-do is a job paying over £25k.

Generali wrote: »

Fair enough. That is what I was digging at TBH.

So the next question is why not? £25,000 is £500 a week or £70 a day or £100 if you want a weekend.

Clearly you won't make that at the minimum wage but even at a tenner an hour that's 10 hours a day.

Employers don't want to, or can't afford to.
My personal view, is that employers feel that employees can subsidise their income with Tax Credits, feeling it isn't their problem.

A world away from the history of the Cadbury family, or the Rowntrees of olde.

lemonjelly

Really2 wrote: »

Average full time wage in Liverpool is £23,280
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_labour/ASHE-2009/2009_work_la.pdf

Take Torres, Gerrard & Carra out of that & you'll get closer to the norm.;)

On a serious note, in Liverpool, we're commonly up to 3rd generation unemployed. That is frightening. 3 Generations without employment!:eek:

PasturesNew

nembot wrote: »

The problem here is these prices do not reflect the local average wage.

For example, 114k maybe the figure for an average priced house in Liverpool, but it's highly unlikely the average wage would be anywhere near 25k in the local area - in fact it's probably a lot closer to 13-14k.

Would imagine the same analogy would be applicable to many areas, so affordibility is a term that can only be used loosely in these terms.

Where I am is one of the highest house prices, coupled with the lowest wages. I saw some stat somewhere that said it's the only area that has BOTH the highest house prices AND the lowest wages. And then factor in the fact that you can't just drive 10-20-30-40 miles the other way and find jobs/more jobs/better paying jobs ... you'd have to think about driving 200 miles - and there's only one direction you can travel in too.

Round my way, the median full-time female wage is £16,700. Median full-time male wage is £21,700. Most of the higher wages will be small business owners (B&Bs, pubs, shopkeepers) probably too - as well as public sector (very little of that unless you go 20 miles).

I can't change sex to get more...

moggylover

Generali wrote: »

I have family and friends all over England, plus one or 2 in Scotland but despite living in 3 countries, I've only lived in the SE corner of England.

When I've been to some towns in the North and Midlands (eg Stoke and Retford) I've not seen much evidence of an economy beyond shops, pubs, some agriculture between the towns and a small amount of light industry. I assumed I was missing something.

You really weren't missing anything Gen, despite all the claims that the only reason for worklessness is idleness, there are very large areas where the work is in very short supply and this is often further exacerbated by it being seasonal and involving the ubiquitous "zero-hours contract" which was supposed to reduce the size of the "black-market" of casual work and to make work more flexible (both for employers and employees) but has resulted in lots of benefits for the employers and very difficult working conditions for the employee in very many cases.

I may be an old left winger, but I'm not a fool and unlike many of the worst ranters on MSE, I have actually LIVED long-term, away from the cushioned SE. Reality away from there can be (and often is) markedly different and has difficulties that the SE never has had to cope with (like very poor transport links, and roads that, whilst not piled with traffic, can make an hours journey distance into two hours travelling time:eek:)

The average wage around here (last time I checked which was last year during a conversation with Graham Devon:)) is around £16K - that makes the house prices for locals a lot less affordable than they look from the outside and we suffer great pressure on properties from those looking for investment/rental properties, second-homes and the dreaded (and detested) hobby farmers and those who waste good smallholdings on their equine pets:(

The Council are the largest employer around here, and with the cuts coming that will have a really bad affect on the economy here, and again the wage rates. Furthermore, as this is an area to which people choose to retire from more affluent areas we are unfortunately stuck with the expense of providing them services from our Council Tax even though we have not had the benefit of the fancy salaries they have been earning. I've long since been of the opinion that the area in which they worked and earned and spent should be the one that funds their elder care and not the one to which they decided to retire because it puts a disproportionate strain on incomes in an area like this. However, I do realise that some of those people spend heavily in this area so perhaps the income from that balances it: I rather doubt it though.

These sort of rural areas have their plus points, but the reality of actually earning a good living around here (apart from the actual professions like solicitors, medics and teachers) is that it is unlikely for most. Just getting ANY job can be desperately tough and the local Jobcentre site often has absolutely nothing but personal carer situations which really are not jobs that everyone can (or should be forced to) do:(

What we have is a Nation which has lost ALL common sense. The incomes in whatever area have seldom kept pace with the actual cost of living there (if one includes keeping a roof over ones head) and the panacea for that is the cheap tat one can buy and the easy credit that has made it seem affordable.

PasturesNew

moggylover wrote: »

The average wage around here (last time I checked which was last year during a conversation with Graham Devon:)) is around £16K -

This is what I use, 2009 figures at the moment: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_labour/ASHE-2009/tab7_7a.xls

You can look at all, male, female, full-time, part-time by each area.

moggylover

michaels wrote: »

I tend to agree but think that often people fail to see the consequences in the other direction - ie those on a normal out of London salary can not understand that someone paying higher rate income tax may actually still be struggling to house their family and that the cut in child benefit might actually hit really hard.

That's very true michaels, but there are ranters on both sides of that fence and the reason they rant is because they ARE totally incapable of seeing both sides of a picture.

We will never solve any of the problems of Society buy ranting, or by holding only our own reality as the real reality:)

I shall possibly loose my CB, but, tbh, I think we would be better off across the board actually getting rid of CB and putting that money into something like giving each child a decent free school meal or extra money into education, because we certainly don't need to be encouraging ANYONE to breed these days and I do think benefits for those at work are wrong.

Incomes should be good enough to live on without major deprivation, and if that involves having to interfere with the markets (especially housing ones) in some way then I think that makes much more sense than robbing Peter to pay Paul as we do at the moment.

I certainly do not approve of that CB being a savings fund for the children of the very well heeled, nor the way that the family affords a new car every year:o Means testing everything IS expensive, but it is also probably a lot fairer than the blanket cut currently under suggestion.:)