Options for business on agricultural land

luca_duca

help!!!

I had a previous thread re making money from unused land...thanks to everyone for your advice but now we need some more help and quick as things are getting a little desperate

okay so I try to be as brief as possible

My sister in law and her boyfiend bought a farm in Hampshire with the intention of continuing their business of making small Oak TImber Frames and Windows.

They have 10.5 acres of land, a large % of which is currently used for horse grazing, some stables, a barn which is currently used for sanding and joinery and an old chicken shed that is being used for storage.

They have neighbours next to their driveway who are friendly and give no complaints, then they have another neighbour who's land finishes at the end of their garden...this is quite some distance away from the sawmill, approx 8 acres. The barn is approx 1 acre away from his house and is going to be soundprooofed.

Unfortunately, when buying the land they made the mistake of not checking the 'use of land' rules...yes i know

But now they have been informed by a Senior Compliance Officer that this is considered a change of land use that requires planning permissions

The letter states

'This change of use of the land requires planning permission. I have checked the planning history For Ford Farm and planning permisson has not been granted for such a change of use

In my opinion given the loction and the types of activities you re undertaking on the land planning permission wouln not be granted. The siting, scale and nature of the activities you are currently undertaking are considered tobe inappropriate and contrary to local Development Plan policies and Government guidance. you are therefore required to cease use of the land for your business and permanently remove all non agricultural machinery, equipment and materials from the land within 2 months of the date of the letter'

Since moving to the new house their business has grown to the point where they have been importing oak timber, cutting it with a saw mill at the end of their land then doing all the technical work in the barn. They want to apply for Planning Permission but have been put off by the letter and the fact that their neightbour and some others from the village have put in complaints about them, the latest being burning of horse dung.....which the people from the stable have done on rare occassions. the claim is that it smells.....its the country!! everyone including both neighbours constanly have bonfires!
someone also complained to the council that they knocked down a wall on their driveway. it was a normal red brick wall about 4 bricks high and it was on their own land, when the council arrived to investigate they were confused as to what the fuss had been about. Basically some of the villagers have got together and they are trying everything they can to get at my sister in law and her boyfriend because they have taken a dislike to them.

The reason for all this info is because one of the villagers was on the council so has connections so they don't know if their application would even get anywhere.

They won't be using the sawmills anymore as they are shipping in the timber ready cut so thats one thing sorted.

Does anyone know if you can work from a workshop on agricultural land with out the need for 'change of use'?
or in a barn commercially if it is soundproofed, i have looked on the net but we're not sure, its a new area to us and we can't afford to get it wrong

Things are now desperate...
As this was a new business mistakes were made but they were quite big financial mistakes....under estimates of costs... which has put them in debt, which in turn has led to the boyfriend having a nervous breakdown.(another story... going to do another thread on debts)

so now we are running the business and determined to keep it going. we really want to stay on this farm and not sell it but we're trying to sift through the options.... sell their house, find a unit, find a new home... or figure a way through this and stay

thank you in advance for your help and sorry if its a bit waffly

Savvy_Sue

luca_duca wrote:

The reason for all this info is because one of the villagers was on the council so has connections so they don't know if their application would even get anywhere.

They can check on the progress of their application, it can't just 'disappear' because someone doesn't like it. And any councillor with an 'interest' in a planning application has to declare it, and, AFAIK, not take part in ANY discussion about it. Whether living in the same village constitutes an 'interest' might be a subject for discussion - by their nature councillors tend to live locally to planning applications!

Sorry I don't know anything about change of use, although I know that sometimes such applications are granted, and sometimes they're not.

Debt_Free_Chick

luca_duca wrote:

Does anyone know if you can work from a workshop on agricultural land with out the need for 'change of use'?
or in a barn commercially if it is soundproofed, i have looked on the net but we're not sure, its a new area to us and we can't afford to get it wrong

No. You cannot undertake anything other than agricultural activities on agricultural land. They would need to apply for Change of Use permission. Even if it were not agricultural land, permission would probably be required to run this type of business on any non-business land e.g. private home.

The concern will be that agricultural land is being removed i.e. converted to use other than farming-related activities.

Would you get planning permission for change of use? You need to look at the local development plan for the area and the relevant planning guidlines. Is this Hart? If so, the Local Plan is here

You really need to read the whole document to understand how the local planning policy works, but policy statements RUR2, 3 &4 are most relevant. You might also want to look at the Core Strategy document, particulary the section on the (local) economy and especially page 36 (it's the 36th page, but page number 30. You'll see what I mean when you open the pdf). If your application "ticks all the right boxes", you are likely to succeed, but it's difficult to know what those boxes are without more specific guidance from the Council. You will see that they have yet to publish their Development Control Policies, but the Core Strategy seems very positive about farm diversification. Note, that it suggests that such applications would need to be accompanied by a Farm Business Plan, but this requirement may not yet be in force. It would help your case if you specifically stated which parts of your application address which policies listed in the guidance documents which are available from Hart Council.

Whilst the Council has objectives to support farmers wishing to diversify, it also wants to preserve existing farming opportunities, so I think you will face a battle. You are less likely to succeed if there are suitable business units nearby too .... as it would be expected that they would be used first, in preference to converting existing agricultural land.

You should also take into account the current grade of the land - do you know what grade of agricultural land it is? Highest grades are 1, 2 and 3a - this is considered the best quality of land for farming and, again, if you have high-grade land, there will be resistance to taking it permanently out of farming use (which is what you're asking for).

Finally, you need to look at the national planning guidance too. This is Planning Policy Statement 7 - Sustainable Development in Rural Areas

By now, you should be getting the impression that this will not be a simple planning application - you are going to have to make out a strong business case for change of use, coupled with a strong demonstrated sympathy for the local environment.

There is, however, a glimmer of hope if you keep most of the land as farming land and simply apply to diversify by changing use of one of the existing buildings only, whilst keeping the existing farming activities. Especially if you are no longer operating a sawmill - that would raise issues of access of large vehicles to the sawmill, increasing traffic on rural roads, disposal of waste, creation of a potential eyesore/blot on the landscape etc, etc.

It's a pity you're having to import timber though. It may not count against you, but it would almost certainly be a bonus if you had a local source, as you would be adding further to the local economy, which is a strong theme in all the planning guidelines.

Basically some of the villagers have got together and they are trying everything they can to get at my sister in law and her boyfriend because they have taken a dislike to them.

This probably happens in every village and, to be honest, it's not surprising that villagers have taken a disliking to them. No offence, but let me try and put things how they see them. Here we have two typical townies who have moved to the countryside and set about turning it into an industrial unit. Why can't people understand that the countryside is so beautiful, because everyone works to make it that way?

That might seem somewhat harsh and I sympathise with your SIL & BF as they have been ignorant of the planning laws rather than deliberately flouting them. But villagers won't see it like that. If you want stay at the farm, you will all need to go out of your way to make friends with the locals and convince them that you have made mistakes simply because you didn't know what the rules are. I say all of this as a townie who moved to a similar rural area 4 years ago, having previously lived in a city all my life!!

They want to apply for Planning Permission but have been put off by the letter and the fact that their neightbour and some others from the village have put in complaints about them

The complaints don't help, but any planning application (including change of use) is judged on planning merits i.e. scored against the guidelines.

also

The reason for all this info is because one of the villagers was on the council so has connections so they don't know if their application would even get anywhere.

The same applies ... the application is judged on planning merits and no-one is able to "twist the arm" of the Council. But, of course, everyone locally will have an opportunity to comment on the application. Objections alone do not count for much - only objections that address planning guidelines will count (see later).

So, what should you do? I think you clearly need some professional help & guidance here, unless you are confident about making an application that addresses all the planning guidelines. Contact Defra for information on the Rural Development Programme. They used to offer one day's free consultation for farmers looking to diversify, but I'm not sure if that still applies (as the old Rural Enterprise Scheme closed in June, this year).

The CLA may be able to help, but you need to join. You might want to check exactly what help they can give you, if the fee is expensive.

Otherwise, you'll need a local surveyor or land agent. You need one that is definitely LOCAL as they need to understand the local planning guidelines and one with specific experience in farm diversification projects. This might be a useful discussion point for neighbours/villagers who might be able to recommend someone - perhaps a villager works in this area?

You might want to look at other successful applications. You can do that online here, just using the postcode. It will show you any historic planning permissions granted for your property ... but you will need to look at others too. There is no easy way to search for applications that simply look at farming diversification

You should get to know your Parish Councillors too. All Parish Council meetings are open to the public, so you can just turn up. The Agenda should be posted on the village noticeboards at least three working days in advance. You might find it interesting to attend a meeting that discusses local planning applications - especially ones involving agricultural land!

Just to cheer you up a bit, getting change of use is possible. Have a look at this one, near to me. However, that particular application relates to a farm that has been derelict for many years and the grade of the land is low - but there were 40-odd objections from locals including the Parish Council and they still got their permission! Look carefully at how they submitted their application and look at the what was submitted to the Council Planning Committee here pages 81-94 as it shows you exactly how the Council considered their application. Note, though, that there are many conditions that apply to it (pages 90-93) :eek: It also demonstrates that objections from residents don't count for much, if the application "ticks all the right boxes".

You might be wondering why I am "qualified" to give you all this advice - I happen to be a Parish Council Clerk in a rural area similar to your SIL's

My personal suggestion would be for you to get professional help on this. At least a feasibility study to see if it's worthwhile applying for change of use permission.

HTH

Savvy_Sue

DFC, what a wonderfully detailed and informative post! I do hope the OP finds it helpful, however scary it all seems.

luca_duca

yes you have been fantastic Debt_Free_Chick, i really do appreciate the advice and information you have taken the time to give me, it has put us on the right track...thank you