LloydsTSB Fraudsters

Kai_The_Dog

Last month I received an email from Microsoft inviting me to another year of their Hotmail Plus service and if I would like to have my account automatically renewed then I would have to renew my credit card details which have expired.

I have just looked at my LloydsTSB account online and guess what had been taken out on the 10th October? Microsoft £14.99

I then checked my Hotmail account and there it is, my card expired in March 2006!! :mad:

I've emailed LloydTSB demanding an explanation and had an online chat with Microsoft who apologised, cancelled my account and have apparently refunded the money - I'll wait and see.

My question is, how can LloydsTSB authorise a transaction from an expired Debit Card. It doesn't say a lot about their account protection policies.

jonesMUFCforever

It's all to do with a continious authority payment.
You gave Microsoft your card number (you did not set up a direct debit to come out of your account) and until you tell them otherwise they will continue to debit the card.It does not matter that the card is expired (or indeed if the account had been closed)
This is the system with all debit and credit cards!
If you don't like the system don't give your card number to anyone online.

Kai_The_Dog

Is that right? I did not know this.

I'd better go and check all my other previous transactions.

Thanks ejones999

James

Yep ,Continuous Authority Payments can be leathal. Maybe consumers should demand that more informtion is provided when signing up to this type of payment method.

A huge warning saying CONTINUOUS AUTHORITY PAYMENT wouldn't go amiss, rather than being buried in the small print.

david.smith530

For well over a year my bank have been deducting £13 or so each month from
my account. Plus a £1 charge for changing from dollars to pounds. So clearly, it
is something relating to something set up abroad - most likely the USA.

I have queried this deduction from my account on at least two previous occasions
and at the same time requested my bank to stop the payment. They have sent me
- on previous occasions - forms to fill in, relative to initiating a fraud investigation.
I have not filled in such forms because I not only not know how this deduction was
initiated, but fear it might have been done by one of two of my sons. After all, it
does relate to AOL - specifically TWX-AOL.

I took to researching the deductions for this year and totaling them up. When I
discovered that the debit card against which these deductions were being made,
met it's 'expiry' date at the end of January this year. I wrote to the bank to make
it clear to them that they continued to make these deductions against an expired
debit card and that they should stop this immediately. To which they replied that
in spite of the card 'expiring' this company still have the right to claim the deduction
each month. That I should contact them to have the service discontinued.

Apart from the fact that I do not have the 'service' and do not know who they are?
I have researched them on the web and even telephoned one department in the USA
but the only detail I could give them was the last four digits on the expired card and
make the assumption that the preceeding twelve numbers, were the same as on my new
one. I received an assurance that the payment would stop being deducted. It has not.
My bank continue to make these payments.

I find it absolutely ridiculous to find that I have less control over my bank account
than people/organizations making deductions from it. And totally astounded to learn
that an 'expired' card, does not actually expire.

The only alternative I can see that will stop these deductions. Is to close the account
and change banks?

I would much appreciate your understanding of the banks stance? And it's accuracy?

Best Wishes

David Smith

darich

david.smith530 wrote: »

They have sent me- on previous occasions - forms to fill in, relative to initiating a fraud investigation.
I have not filled in such forms because I not only not know how this deduction was
initiated, but fear it might have been done by one of two of my sons. After all, it
does relate to AOL - specifically TWX-AOL.

There's your alternative to changing banks.

I'd also suspect that TWX AOL is a fraudulent company. I had an attempted transaction from an american internet company on my card but Nationwide wre suspicious. They phoned me to query it and when i confirmed it wasn't authorised, no payment was sent.

Another alternative would have been to ask your sons if they had used your card and find out sooner if the transaction was genuine.

dunstonh

Continuous debits do not require the date of the card to be updated. They do not have anywhere near the level of protection that direct debits have and you have very little control over them.

And totally astounded to learn that an 'expired' card, does not actually expire.

Its not using the card though. Its using an agreement you agreed when the card was valid.

So clearly, it is something relating to something set up abroad - most likely the USA.

Probably something signed up for online.

Apart from the fact that I do not have the 'service' and do not know who they are?

With respect, that is your responsibility. If you dispute that, then you should fill in the forms the bank has given. If your sons have used your card then that is against the terms and conditions of the card issuer and is technically fraud. The bank is unlikely to prosecute as it would need you to agree it but the bank is likely to withdraw card services from you for breach of t&c if its found that it is your responsibility.

HOWEVER, the bank wouldnt know if it was your sons. All that will happen is that the retailer will supply the authority which the bank will pass onto you and will say that you agreed it (unless it is a signed authorisation and signatures differ)

The only alternative I can see that will stop these deductions. Is to close the account
and change banks?

You should fill in disputed transaction forms with the bank. Failing that you should ask the bank to cancel the card and issue one with a new number (the middle number doesnt change on most renewals but can be changed by the bank if required - typically on stolen or lost cards).

dzug

Closing the account and changing banks will not actually help - the amounts will still get deducted and passed on to you.

There are only two ways to stop this - first contact the payee and tell them to stop.

If they don't or won't, go to the second way - fill in those fraud forms - the bank can't act without them. Even if it was one of your sons who set it up, it's still fraud.

noh

TWX AOL is AOL or Time Warner AOL as it is more properly known.
If you do a google search you will see many people complaing of alleged unauthourised deductions from their accounts by them.

Nigel

exel1966

david.smith530 wrote: »

For well over a year my bank have been deducting £13 or so each month from
my account. Plus a £1 charge for changing from dollars to pounds. So clearly, it
is something relating to something set up abroad - most likely the USA.

I have queried this deduction from my account on at least two previous occasions
and at the same time requested my bank to stop the payment. They have sent me
- on previous occasions - forms to fill in, relative to initiating a fraud investigation.
I have not filled in such forms because I not only not know how this deduction was
initiated, but fear it might have been done by one of two of my sons. After all, it
does relate to AOL - specifically TWX-AOL.

I took to researching the deductions for this year and totaling them up. When I
discovered that the debit card against which these deductions were being made,
met it's 'expiry' date at the end of January this year. I wrote to the bank to make
it clear to them that they continued to make these deductions against an expired
debit card and that they should stop this immediately. To which they replied that
in spite of the card 'expiring' this company still have the right to claim the deduction
each month. That I should contact them to have the service discontinued.

Apart from the fact that I do not have the 'service' and do not know who they are?
I have researched them on the web and even telephoned one department in the USA
but the only detail I could give them was the last four digits on the expired card and
make the assumption that the preceeding twelve numbers, were the same as on my new
one. I received an assurance that the payment would stop being deducted. It has not.
My bank continue to make these payments.

I find it absolutely ridiculous to find that I have less control over my bank account
than people/organizations making deductions from it. And totally astounded to learn
that an 'expired' card, does not actually expire.

The only alternative I can see that will stop these deductions. Is to close the account
and change banks?

I would much appreciate your understanding of the banks stance? And it's accuracy?

Best Wishes

David Smith

There seem to be two logical/possible scenarios to this.

1. You or somebody else with access to your card has entered into a monthly subscription contract with TWX-AOL by means of a CPA. If so, the bank does not have the right to cancel this. It can ONLY be done by yourself/whoever set it up. Would you really want your bank to have the right to cancel things without recourse to you ? That's why it has to be done by you.

2. It's a fraudulent transaction, but as it's been occurring for over a year that would seem unlikely to me. Your bank have offered to investigate this as fraud, but you've declined because of your own suspicions about your sons. That just leaves option 1 then !

EDIT : KAI - how about amending the title as clearly NO fraud has taken place.

Mikeyorks

exel1966 wrote: »

EDIT : KAI - how about amending the title as clearly NO fraud has taken place.

My initial thought as well .... until I realised the OP is 14 months old. (and the OP has not been around since)