Can Fire Exits be padlocked?

Simon11

Hi

I've got a query and wonder if anyone could tell me if its legal/ or direct me to any material about it:o

At night, all the fire exits doors around the leisure centre are pad locked. All the public have left, leaving only a few members of staff.

However during the time between pad locking doors, and leaving the building (Max 15minutes) what would happen if there was a fire?

There is normaly the manager with the key for pad locks and up to around 3/4 members of staff who wouldn't have the keys.

Again, same in the morning, manager unlocks the doors, but generally this takes some time, so could be up to 15minutes that workers are in the building with locked exits.

Would be grateful for advice, and this is a company policy:eek:

Clearly staff safety is more important than security of the building?

globalds

The building should have been risk assessed.

A link to the specifics to do with your kind of building is here.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/fire/firesafetyrisk

The risk associated with customers and people who are not familiar with the site will be different to staff.An assessment should be made for both groups.

If you have any doubts it would be far better to talk to your line manager who will either point you in the direction of the person responsible or will get back with the information.

I don't really see a problem with someone who has keys to the padlocks on fire doors being locked, and is also very familiar with any alternative routes and alarm points.

These kind of risk assessments should be regularly reviewed and if you have any better ideas you should put them forward.

Simon11

Thanks globalds

Staff may have full knowledge of the whole building, however if all the doors are pad locked, with only front door open isn't this a risk still?:o

I've just had a look at http://www.autoproltd.co.uk/File/fire_risk_assessment.php

Fire safety law and guidance documents for business
New fire safety rules affecting all non-domestic premises in England and Wales came into force on 1 October 2006.

Suitable fire exit doors
• You should be able to use fire exit doors and any doors on the escape routes without a key and without any specialist knowledge.

It doesn't say whether this "you" is for public or staff. In the morning we do have contracted polish cleaners who might not know the layout of the site that well.

getmore4less

AIUI

I think you will find it will depend on any the risks on the routes out of the building and the time taken from each location and the number of people.

Our old office had no fire escapes because every one(20) could exit in the time required from all parts of the building.

When there are more people then this can result in the escape route(s) not being adiquate so more are required.

lucylucky

As has been mentioned there will (should) be an adequate risk assessment.

You are entitled to see it, so ask for it.

Vader123

You need to see a risk assessment as others have stated.

Does the doors being padlocked hinder the staff?

I have seen issues where there is a security issue not having them locked (with an assessment in place) yet the staff complain as it prevents fag breaks etc away from cameras.

Whats the issue with them being locked out of hours? What has happened?

Vader

Uncertain

globalds wrote: »

I don't really see a problem with someone who has keys to the padlocks on fire doors being locked, and is also very familiar with any alternative routes and alarm points.

You don't !!! :eek:

People can forget their keys!

Locks can jam!

Locks can be replaced but not everybody's keys updated (holiday etc)!

A lock that normally takes a few seconds to undo becomes a major obstacle in a panic or a room full of smoke!

If you had ever seen fire service training videos or those made by building research I very much doubt you would take this attitude.

globalds

Uncertain wrote: »

You don't !!! :eek:

People can forget their keys!

Locks can jam!

Locks can be replaced but not everybody's keys updated (holiday etc)!

A lock that normally takes a few seconds to undo becomes a major obstacle in a panic or a room full of smoke!

If you had ever seen fire service training videos or those made by building research I very much doubt you would take this attitude.

So the nominated person ( who is the one I am referring to )

Is going to suffer any of those problems other than a pad lock jamming as he wonders around locking up for the night ?

As I stated the risk assessment should have dealt with specific issues , if done correctly.

I was not generalising , and neither should the risk assessment.

[Deleted User]

We do this at work as well (Comet).

SarEl

As has already been said - it depends on the risk assessment. Many buildings have padlocked fire exits, which are only padlocked during certain hours. The sorts of factors that may be involved are things like exit times, fire resistance of exit routes.... Our offices are in a building which has fire exits padlocked "overnight" for security, but even when padlocked we have clear and fire resistant routes out - the "additional" routes out would not make it any safer or quicker, because they allow for additional "volume" in terms of the numbers of people who might be in the building at peak times.

KiKi

Simon11 wrote: »

However during the time between pad locking doors, and leaving the building (Max 15minutes) what would happen if there was a fire?

Clearly staff safety is more important than security of the building?

Hi there

Maybe I'm being stupid / ignorant here, but surely that's not unreasonable? You have to lock the doors before you leave, so there will always be a point between starting to lock the doors and leaving where all the exits are locked, bar one?

The same in the morning...as soon as you walk in the front door, effectively there are no other exits - as it takes time to unlock the fire doors.

You can't be in a position where you're in the building with all doors unlocked - and then suddenly outside with them all locked; there will always be a bit of overlap, surely?!

Sorry if I've misunderstood..!

KiKi